‘Steady Habits’ feels like a coming of age film for Ben Mendelsohn’s character, but I suppose that could be said about your other movies too.
Absolutely. I feel like I’m coming of age in this part of my life right now; growing into what’s next. And am I ready for what’s next? I think we’re constantly coming of age.
You’ve touched upon the complexities and sadness of parenthood a bit in “Enough Said,” but it’s really pronounced here; that feeling of failure and guilt. You weren’t good enough.
My kids have preoccupied me for twenty goddamn years [laughs]. They’re my life. I have a great career, but my kids are everything. I worry constantly and they are my priority. In “Enough Said those kids were doing pretty well. The kids of this movie are not, and they’re sort of my worst fear for my children or any parent facing teenagers. It can be pretty scary.
I suppose another of your preoccupations is broken characters. It’s like that New Yorker article that stresses that you like to take in stray animals and help them. I feel like that same kind of empathy applies.
First of all, everyone is flawed and a little broken. If you have a childhood, you’re a little broken and it’s just a matter of degrees of broken. And fucked up people are so much more interesting than people who have it all together. So, I’m intuitively always drawn to that. I’m always learning, I’m always making mistakes. That’s what makes life interesting, the laughter and the crying. That’s not a very good quote, is it? [laughs]. Don’t say that! But that’s why people want to watch movies, right? We don’t want to watch aspirational versions of ourselves…unless it’s a superhero movie.
Ahem, well, actually…
Yeah, well, I don’t go see those, so there you go [laughs].
It’s interesting because it kind of hits upon a convergence of ideas we’ve touched on and something I think about: the push towards the strong or “badass” female character, because often in Hollywood, sadly translates into an action hero that’s as bland as any male counterpart.
Like what, that Charlize Theron movie [“Atomic Blonde“]? Yeah, that’s not woman empowerment at all, that’s just a violent action movie. And that’s not helping women. These women aren’t complex, they’re not interesting. When I read scripts it’s like these descriptions of women, “She’s whipsmart! She carries the world on her shoulders and knows it!” Look, women are not described in one sentence. ANY character should not be described in one sentence. And if they can be? There’s a problem.
Women empowerment, in Hollywood it gets mixed up with art in a way that may not be really interesting or complex. And I guess some actresses are really into trying [the action thing] because it is such a macho thing and it is so different than say, wife role that many are offered. At the same time, it’s understandable. Actors are drawn to that. If they have been playing dull parts, they would jump at the chance to be like a dude.
Totally. Men have the privilege of those parts thrown in their laps. Some people may want a shot or representation in a genre. You can’t begrudge any underrepresented person who wants to have that opportunity. I guess I just lament simple characters, or the distortion of what a strong character means and how a “weak” character is viewed. Like, what if Jennifer Lawrence is offered a Nicole Holofcener film, but she turns it down because the character is too flawed or not quote-unquote “strong” enough? I’d deeply lament that, do you know what I mean?
Right, well, I get actors who are willing to be sad and miserable and crazy, so I can’t complain. In this particular movie, people might say, “Well, he’s not a nice person or this is not who I want to hang out with,” but that’s not what the story is about. You have to enjoy yourself to some degree to sit there and watch, sure, but I’m interested in making movies about characters that are learning, growing or not growing. That’s what it is for me.
Well, speaking of dudes, let’s talk about Ben Mendelsohn, casting him, working with him, etc.
He’s perfect for the role, he’s a fascinating, fantastic actor. He has a lot of emotion on his face. As a viewer, I’ll watch him in anything. I don’t like violent movies, but I’ll watch one if he’s in it. He has a great sense of humor and even though my film is a drama, you can’t escape it. I try and find humor in most things. He was a fan and that was really exciting to me because he just said yes right away. I hadn’t seen him play in a role like this before and I knew he could do it cause he’s a great actor.
That New Yorker article a while back suggested your films are light on plot which kind of made me laugh a little because I’m not sure that’s the point.
Well, I have to agree [with the article]. I feel like my plots… I have a plot, but it’s a small plot and I feel like in our lives, we all have generally small plots and we grow in increments, so I’m not ashamed to say I don’t have plot-filled movies and maybe that’s why my audience is limited. Hell, as long as Frances McDormand is saying I’m great on dialogue and character, I’ll take “no plot.” That’s fine [laughs].
To that end, do you have aspirations to make something bigger, perhaps broader that more people would see?
I just want to make the movies I want to make. I would love to have a broad comedy that’s great, that’s funny and cracks me up to direct. And maybe that would be a big hit, and I would make more money, and that’s great. I wouldn’t turn that down if I love the script. But short of getting something like that fall in my lap, I’m happy to write my thing and continue to have the control that I’ve been able to have and not give that up. You know, I’m doing fine. I’m not suffering, you know? It’s not broken, at least not yet.
It’s interesting your film in this climate. It’s hard to get a movie like this made and financed in theory, but now you’ve got Netflix and Amazon, and they’re content starved (although still overflowing with content).
Yeah, I’ve been able to make movies with the studios, smaller studios, but it’s been great. But in this time, right now? Trying to keep a drama in a theater for longer than 10 minutes? It’s really difficult. I think this movie is more difficult than some and I think Netflix might be the perfect place because more people will see it and more people will probably see it than my other movies. I might not know it [laughs], and I might know Netflix’s [equivalent of] the box office or things like that, but that’s ok. If I get to make another one, I’ve done my job.
