In this week’s episode of Bingeworthy, our TV and streaming podcast host Mike DeAngelo is putting out a hit on other shows to discuss “Tulsa King.” The Paramount+ series follows a former Mafia capo exiled to Tulsa, Oklahoma, where he builds a new criminal empire with a group of unlikely misfits. The crime dramedy series stars Sylvester Stallone, Andrea Savage, Martin Starr, Garrett Hedlund, Jay Will, Frank Grillo, and more.
Joining Bingeworthy to discuss season two of the hit series is writer and showrunner, Terence Winter (“The Sopranos,” “Boardwalk Empire,” “The Wolf of Wall Street”). Winter took over the show early in season one’s development for creator Taylor Sheridan (“Yellowstone,” “Wind River”), who was overrun by all things “Yellowstone” and its related projects. After season one rumors began spreading that Sheridan and Winter butted heads over the direction of the series, Winter quit the show, but was ultimately convinced to return for season two. During the interview, Winter cleared the air and explained the situation in his own words.
“I inherited the show from Taylor Sheridan and I think, he probably would have done it differently,” Winter admitted. “But the whole idea of me doing it was the idea that, ‘Okay, take this and run with it, it’s yours.’ And that was the premise upon which we agreed to do it. And then when I was getting word that they wanted some changes made that I disagreed with, I said, ‘Well, you know what, look, it’s your show, you created it, and I’m going to move on and do something else, which was the plan originally.’ And then I think they decided, ‘Actually, you know what? This is working. And that original plan kind of works.”
“Taylor’s got 19 other shows to worry about, certainly. God bless them. And then we kind of had our ‘kumbaya’ moment and went back and did the show,” Winter continued. “So it’s not as dramatic as it might appear in print —that was pretty much it. You know, again, as somebody who’s created shows myself, I’m totally respectful of somebody having a different vision—you and I might approach the same thing differently. And, again, if you’re the guy who thought of it in the first place, then certainly you’re entitled to make it whatever you want it to be.”
Regardless of the behind-the-scenes drama, the first season has been a hit for Paramount+, thanks in no small part to the star at the center of the show, Sylvester Stallone, who also wrote on the series this season due to his connection and care for the character he plays.
“We’ve been on the same page with this character from the very beginning,” Winter said of Stallone’s input. “I think one of the most flattering things he said was when he first read my version of the pilot, he said, ‘This fits me like a tailor-made suit. He said, ‘This is exactly who I am if I were a mob boss, a real person.’ I think also people only knew him as “Rocky” or “Rambo.” He said people were like, ‘Rocky isn’t the brightest guy in the world. Very charming. Rambo barely says anything.’ He says, ‘people are even surprised that I can speak in full sentences, so the idea that I actually have dialogue and I’m funny and I’m well-read,’ which is true of the real person. Sly is incredibly well-read and really, really bright, knows tons about art, et cetera. So Dwight is sort of a reflection of him.”
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The series has been successful enough to warrant conversations about potential spin-offs, which Winter confirmed and teased during the conversation.
“It’s literally in the embryonic talking stages about, ‘hey, what if like, maybe we could spin it off, maybe it could be New Orleans, it could be 90 other different places,” Winter said. “But that’s literally as far as we’ve gotten. And no, I don’t know what it would be, or who it would be yet. But it’s interesting, the idea of – you’ve seen all these spinoffs of cop shows that go to other places. You haven’t seen a crime show that sort of goes to other cities, right? You know, look, you can franchise a donut shop, why not a mob family? And there have been mob families in the past that have said, hey, well, we’re going to set up shop. And, you know, basically, it’s what happened in Tulsa.”
During the chat, the conversation turned to other series that almost came to pass, including Winter’s time on Matt Reeves’ “Gotham P.D.” which ultimately didn’t happen due to “creative differences.”
“The idea was that we were going to do a 1970s cop show—something that felt like ‘Prince of the City,’ but in the Gotham City Police Department,” Winter said. “It was going to have that [70s] feel. It was going to be a present-day cop who is like a third-generation Gotham City cop, you know, his grandfather, his dad [were cops]. And Gotham City was largely corrupt. And this is our guy who we meet in the present day, who’s realizing that he’s kind of on the wrong side. The Batman was somebody that kind of lived in that world, but you never really saw him. And it was really all about the police department and sort of this guy. And I worked on it for a while. And ultimately, you know, Matt [Reeves] wasn’t feeling it. And I left, I know, they brought in another guy after me. I can’t remember his name, the guy who did ‘Tokyo Vice.’ He worked for a while on it that that—that didn’t go anywhere. I have no idea what he did. And then I read about ‘The Penguin.’ And, you know, that’s great—good for them. Like I said, you know, it was Matt’s idea originally, and more power to [him]. Sometimes you’re in sync creatively, sometimes you’re not. Or you get off on the wrong foot thinking, ‘Oh, we should do this and go, Oh, you know what, this is just not really working.”
The Playlist Presents – Terence Winter’s Film/TV Recommendation Playlist:
1.) “Paris Police 1900” (2021) – Created By Fabien Nury
2.) “29th Street” (1991) – Directed By George Gallo
3.) “Mr. Inbetween” (2018-2021) – Created By Scott Ryan
4.) “Fargo” (2014-2024) – Created By Noah Hawley
“Tulsa King” is streaming new Season Two episodes weekly on Paramount+. Listen to the full interview below:
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