What was the hardest scene for you to shoot?
It’s difficult to answer that. I’ve been asked that a few times. I feel like the whole thing step by step after the big thing happens in the movie, pretty much is tough. Even just the shot of me just standing listening to Toni or me having a panic attack on the bleachers, it more or less was emotional hell for about two months. And then you come out of it and you feel relieved to have gone through that process and to have been given the opportunity to work out a lot of stuff that normally people are not allowed to work out or too afraid to work out. So, I feel like it was just really, really the whole way through, for me at least. If that’s a pretty candid honest answer.
Would you ask Ari questions that aren’t really answered in the film like “Why is this happening at this point?” Were there things that you wanted to know? Because the film doesn’t necessarily explain everything.
[I read a lot about King] Paimon. But the whole plot, all that stuff, that has a logic and that actually has a straightforward line. And all that stuff isn’t just random chaos. It actually is pretty linear if you can track it back. And that’s kind of what I did with the script. So, I really figured out all the stuff and I watched about 10 documentaries on Paimon and that whole thing and what it means to be a god of hell and all that stuff. But with that said, I was much more interested in investing what Peter was going through on earth and what everyone in the family was going through and it being as much a mystery to me as it is to the audience. And, really, it’s sort of irrelevant whether or not you follow that part of it. If you are emotionally with these characters it’s gonna feel as chaotic and hellish as it does for them. It’s gonna feel as horrible for you as it does for them, which is the goal.
So, when you watched the finished movie yourself did it scare you? Did it move you? Or because you were so on set, invested in the character, was it sort of like you had a disconnect?
What I would say is you need to see it three times. You need to see a movie three times and not see it again ever. And [after the first time] I could acknowledge that it was genius directing, everyone else was amazing in it, but mostly I was just looking at how I look. How big my nose was and my hair, all the things that I think you normally like, “Holy shit, that is definitely not my face.” And I think it’s pretty traumatic to go through that whole experience and then see it on film and it’s never as important or epic or interesting as you want it to be. And you tried a thousand different things and maybe worked through a thousand different emotions, but only one is on screen and that’s not even the one you wanted. And it’s never fun to watch yourself be vulnerable necessarily. So the first time was tough, but I could acknowledge that it was a good movie, especially by people’s reactions. And then second time was such a great audience and I’d seen it before and I was further away from it than I thought, like five months later or something. And, I didn’t have as unrealistically high expectation. I just went in with an open mind to remove myself and I really enjoyed it. I decided that I am never gonna watch it again. I don’t need to see it three times ’cause I enjoyed it enough. And that movie is tough to watch. So two times is enough for “Hereditary,” but my common rule is usually three times. I hate to say I only watched it twice too. So maybe twice is the rule. I don’t know.
Was there anything about the final product that surprised you even knowing that you’d been on set. Was there anything that was unexpected?
Kind of how long [the camera] lingers on shots of my face. I was just flattered. He’d hold shots on my face for longer than I think that anyone could think was … It’s just ballsy. It’s just kind of that’s really the main thing, how long he held on all the shots. And everything surprised you. Some things are shorter than you think. It was a three hour movie that was shot and it ended up being a two hour movie that was released. It’s all different. But honestly, I was listening to the music on set that was going to be in the movie essentially, Colin Stetson‘s music. I was feeling all the terrifying things that was going on. I was there. I was so immersed in that world that I wasn’t very surprised by the ambition that the movie has. I wouldn’t say surprised is the word.
So wait, I didn’t know there was a three hour cut. How much of your character’s story was taken out of the film? Or is it pretty much there?
I think the joke is that I’m one of the lucky ones as far as this movie goes. I did have a few huge scenes that got cut and for good reason because he hangs on my face for so long that it would be overkill to see two other scenes that say the same thing as one close up does in that car scene or something like that. But no, there was a ton of things that got cut, like 30 scenes in the movie got cut.
Someone, whether it’s A24 or someone else involved, will want to do a sequel. Has there been talk about that at all? And would you consider returning?
Honestly, man, I had an unbelievably rewarding experience and an unbelievably cathartic experience that was amazing and it was moving and whatever, but, wow, I hope there’s not a sequel. I’ve got to be honest. That was tiring. It was a pain in the ass. Honestly, I hope not. And I think Ari’s a genius and I want to work with him on his next movie for sure and he’s one of my favorite directors. It’s one of the things I’m most proud of. But to do a sequel kind of sounds like the most tiring, traumatic thing I’ve ever heard.
I totally buy that. I don’t know if you’ve already shot it yet but you’re about to direct your first feature “The Cat and the Moon,” right?
Yeah. I just actually screened the almost final cut for my parents right now, like 10 minutes ago. Just finished.
Could you just tell us what it’s about and what made you want to make it?
Yeah, well I started writing it when I was 15 and it took me five years to make it readable. And I wanted to make it for a long time and it’s dear to my heart. It’s basically about this kid who comes to New York while his mom is treated in a rehab facility back in Detroit. And his dad passed away a little while ago so he’s here sort of stranded in New York living with this older jazz musician played by Mike Epps [in a] sort of unbelievable tour-de-force traumatic turn. And he’s living with this older jazz musician and while he’s there he meets these kids in New York, these sort of upper middle class kids who take him under their wing and show him around the city. It just chronicles his processing of the traumatic nature of his dad’s death and through this relationship with these kids and through the relationship with this older jazz musician who used to play with his dad. It’s complex. It’s a character study directed super inspired by the Dardenne brothers and my take on this type of story.
And you directed yourself too. You’re the star of the film.
Yeah, I did.
O.K.,Was that harder or easier than you thought it would be.
The acting of every movie surprises me how unbelievably hard it is to act, in my opinion. I just find it to be very hard to be vulnerable. It takes a lot out of me. I found directing to have way more help and way more support than I had thought and actually found to be much easier than I expected. I honestly believe that you being in a movie puts you on a ground floor with the other actors so it makes it easier to direct them because they’re going through the same thing. It’s like you think about kids and their parents and parents are saying, “You can’t do this.” And they’re like, “Well, you don’t know what it’s like.” And I always thought about how we’re all making it together. It felt very communal. And I’m someone who likes to pretty much stay in the world of whatever’s going on and stay in that character. So I just directed it from that guy’s world perspective and I gained 25 pounds and I shaved my head and just changed so everyone could change along with me. And I think it gave my actors trust or they trusted me because I was making myself so raw in front of them and so they felt like, “O.K, I can be as raw as I want and there’s not going to be a big scary guy behind a monitor being like, this guy isn’t good or something.” We’re there together and I think there’s something nice about that.
Well, congratulations and listen, do yourself a favor go to a theater next weekend and watch people watching “Hereditary” ’cause you may never be in a movie that freaks people out like this ever again. I don’t even know if Toni ever thought she would.
I know. I was just thinking that. I’ve got to go. I should have gone on opening weekend. I couldn’t do it. I just was busy. But I will now.
“Hereditary” is now playing nationwide.
