Yeah. Let’s talk about structure briefly. How do you guys see it? Because I think the structure’s really amazing and ambitious. It’s maybe like five acts or four acts and a denouement depending on how you look at it.
Aster: Well, you know, one of the things I’m proudest of with this film is the shape of it. It’s hard to quite put into words, but I’ve watched it a couple of times recently where I’ve been detached enough to where I’ve been able to sort of just watch it. And, when you get to the peak of that play section, it really feels like this big emotional climax, and I think the film has in some ways reached this height, and it’s kind of getting straight to the heart of the movie, and of the character, so, I always get a real kick out of knowing that there’s an hour left and that it’s pummeling or that at least wants to be pummeling. Honestly, whether you like it or not, from there, it is this like dissent into like this like doom territory that just yeah. tickles me. The film just kind of has its own shape.
Yeah. This sort of leads me to like the main thing; as someone who’s got a very fraught relationship with his mother, I really responded to this movie in all of its shapes and forms. The humor, the frustration, the anxiety, all of it. How do you guys feel about your moms?
Aster: Love my mom.
Phoenix: I have an unbelievable relationship with my mom. That’s the antithesis of this.
Aster: Yeah. I have an incredible relationship with my mom, too.
That’s somewhat surprising to say, given the nature of this film and some of your work [laughs]. Tell me about the fine line between comedy and horror and how anxiety links them– you seem to really nail that. Your films have been humorous, this one I think is your funniest, but is that a conscious thing for you? And, Joaquin, you’re very funny in it, but you’re also very serious and go through some traumatic experiences. I’m just wondering how you guys felt about that.
Aster: Yeah, it’s meant to be funny; it makes me laugh.
Phoenix: Yeah, certainly. Beau doesn’t really see what’s funny in the world and takes it very seriously, so that was part of the trick, in some ways, to play it as authentically as possible or straight as possible. It’s ridiculous, right? Because if I come out of it and I look at the graffiti on the walls or what people are doing in the background, your nature is to wanna say like, I get it, I know it’s a joke, but I couldn’t. I couldn’t do that, so I, I don’t know, just had to focus on the misery.
Ari, you were talking about shape earlier, which leads me to think a little bit about some of the conversations that may have taken place around that. I think it was the right choice not to be at a festival because something like this would maybe get lost in it, but what are your thoughts about that and the length? For example, I wouldn’t know where to cut this thing, so were there ever conversations about the length and things like that?
Aster: Yeah, there were conversations about it. There have been conversations about length for all of my films, and so it’s just about making sure that it moved at the right clip, you know? When you’re editing anything, it’s always just about making sure that there’s nothing extraneous or superfluous, and the longer a film is, the more you have to really question what stays in it. I’m very happy with the final version. It feels finished to me.
Let me ask you just quickly before I let you go; I think there were some conversations that you guys might be doing something again next, a Western. Are you going to be working together again on your next film?
Aster: We’re just in conversation, and we’ll go on for three years [laughs].
Phoenix: We’ll just talk.
Aster: He’ll go on; he’ll put me through the same f*cking b*llsh*t he did the first time [laughs]. Maybe he’ll do it. Maybe he won’t [laughs]. I think I can say we both want to work together again. And this was a great experience.
“Beau Is Afraid” is in theaters now via A24.
