Listen, you never know. I will say the top-rated episode on IMDB is the finale. So that’s currently the one the fans love the most. I think one of the other things that I thought is remarkable when you made this show, and especially even coming back to shoot the second season, nobody knew politically where we were going to be at this time. And by the way, to get those screeners and to watch this and everything that Fisk is doing and everything that’s going on in the show was a little surreal when it dropped. Did that pop into your mind beforehand?
Yeah, it did. Look, the best person to answer that question is obviously Vincent. And I’ve been in many interviews with him, and the thing he says is, “Just to be clear, I’ve been playing this character this way for 10 years.” So, I don’t think from his mind, and I don’t believe from the show’s mind, you’re meant to be able to draw too many close comparisons, but sometimes, just life and art just imitate each other in a way that is kind of shocking.
It totally is, but let’s go back to Matt’s character for a second. So, you took this six-year break, or maybe it was seven by the time you shot again, or maybe less.
I think that’s about right. I think it’s seven, yes.
As a character, what do you feel has changed? Even in the rejiggered season?
When we come back for “Born Again,” it’s all part of the same history. All the dynamics and relationships, all the history is the same, but about five years have passed. The simplest, easiest story to tell to neutralize everything and also make sure that you’re not alienating a new fan base. Maybe people who haven’t seen the old show but are interested now that they have Disney+, and they want to watch the new show. So, what’s so clever about what Dario managed to do, I think, is that hopefully he’s welcomed a new fan base, and you don’t feel like you have to know all of the history and all of the canon in order to be able to enjoy the show. But equally, there are enough Easter eggs there if you were a big fan of the old show and blah, blah, blah. So, the big catalyst for this season is the death of Foggy [Elden Henson], my best friend in this world if you’ve read any of the comics. I mean that was massive and was very painful to come to terms with. I hundred percent understand the need for it. If you’re going to come back after six or seven years of a hiatus, you have to shake it up a bit, you’ve got to come back in with a bang. And I guess Foggy ends up being the collateral damage. But in terms of Matt’s character, he loses the closest thing to him. And we start that season after we see that happen. Then we come into the present day, and his penance and his new life involves not touching that other side of his life, that he’s rid of it completely. And then the story we try to tell over nine episodes is the slow evolution or devolution back into Daredevil. And that hopefully sets us up quite nicely for what we are shooting right now, where it’s almost potentially the opposite of that. Where because of where we find ourselves in the world, he’s almost having to embody that 24/7.
Going into the second season, I’m not asking for any spoilers, but can he win? Can he beat the Kingpin, or will it always be this yin and yang where neither ever wins?
Yeah, it’s such a good question. And funnily enough, I have in my inbox the final episode of the new season, which I haven’t read. So, I don’t know. It depends on what you mean by beat. I mean that’s the big question for Matt Murdoch is what is winning? Is winning ridding the city of Wilson Fisk? But what is the amount of damage that you are willing to take in order to achieve that? And therefore, can you consider it winning? And at this point, there have been so many casualties, including his best friend, is winning even on the table. At what point is surrender the biggest win?
In context of that context, can Matt Murdock ever find peace? Can he ever have a moment of tranquility? And maybe it was those five years in between the Netflix series and this one? Was that his time of happiness and joy, or is he always going to be tortured?
I think he’s probably always going to be slightly tortured just because of the very nature of the character, there’s so much duplicity going on. He’s so polarized internally that middle ground, that happy place that we hope exists, and that for periods of his life he’s able to touch, is so fleeting. I mean, I don’t know how you’d be a lawyer and dedicate yourself to the law and love the law in the way that Matt Murdoch does and believe so profoundly in the judicial system, and at the same time feel like it’s missing enough that it gives you the right to go out and be judge and jury yourself.
Absolutely.
That’s what makes the, from my point of view, from Charlie, the actor’s point of view, I hope he doesn’t find any peace, because then we get to keep making the show.
When you come back, you’re shooting the new episodes after the strike and you’ve played this character now for so many years but was there one scene, one episode, where you were like, “This is going to be a tough day”? This is a challenge for me as an actor to go through these scenes.
So, the action sequences are tough days. I will never for a second complain because I feel so grateful and lucky that even at my age, I get to do this stuff. I love the action stuff I get really sucked in, but they are hard days because the suit, it’s an ordeal, the suit and wearing it is hard. It’s like someone who’s sitting on your chest all day. And part of my interpretation of Daredevil is that I’ve always thought of him a bit like an alcoholic, and when he takes that much drink, there is no middle ground. He goes from lawyer to assassin, and there’s no scale; it’s just there. So those action sequences, he embodies rage, and it’s really how he has to go to that place mentally to justify what he’s doing. Also, because he doesn’t have lethal weapons, he has to be faster, quicker than the bad guys by quite a large proportion. So those days are hard because they’re tough on the body. My shoulders are in terrible shape, my knees are in bad shape, but those days – especially if it’s three days in a row – I wake up in the morning, I’m like, “O.K., got my ice packs, got my vibration stuff, got my massage balls. Now I’m just going to go and get through it and give it everything I’ve got.” And thank God for my stunt team and my stunt double who pick up so much of the slack and are in such an amazing department. I guess the other thing about the character, one of the reasons I feel so grateful to have this role, is that they’ve always written such beautiful scene work, and there’s so much complexity to the character. And so the stuff that I get to have with the likes of Frank Castle and go deep into the emotional mourning of the loss of Foggy or whatever it is, the scenes, the beautiful scenes I have with Deborah Ann Woll who plays Karen Page and getting to explore the kind of shame and guilt of the secrets and the lies and all of that kind of stuff. And then, of course, getting to be in the courtroom. We had a couple of fantastic courtroom episodes in this last season, and I hear from fans a lot. They love to see that side of the character. I think you often think the fans just want to see big, big fight scenes and explosions and superhero stuff. But the real hardcore fans always say to me, “I love it when you get seen in the courtroom. I really want to see that.” And for years, people were talking specifically about the trial of the White Tiger. And that’s credit to the original writers before we moved on. Those guys wrote those first three episodes.
Before I let you go, I just have two quick questions. One is, you’re shooting in New York City, where people are everywhere, and they’ve got phones recording your production on the street. How frustrating is it when spoilers get on social media?
I find people to be really respectful. I really do. I find that the vast majority of people are excited to see the show. They get the cameras out. If one of the [Assistant Directors] asks them to move, maybe I don’t see it, but someone asked them to move so we can complete the shot? No problem. And I dunno, another way to look at that stuff would I rather be on a show where no one shot stops and gives a s**t? They don’t care, and it’s not good, and they’re not interested? You get on the street, and suddenly people stop and they’re like, “Oh, ‘Daredevil.'” And you hear people talking about it, and I get people trying to wave and shout. That’s the dream. That’s why I was at drama school wishing would happen. Wishing I’d be in a situation where I was on something that people liked. So I’ll take it. I’m grateful for all of that.
“Daredevil: Born Again” is available on Disney+
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