In this week’s episode of The Discourse, host Mike DeAngelo has a crisis of faith while discussing Focus Features‘ “Conclave.” The film follows a Cardinal tasked with leading one of the world’s most secretive and ancient events, selecting a new Pope when he finds himself at the center of a conspiracy that could shake the very foundation of the Catholic Church. The Edward Berger (“All Quiet on the Western Front”) film stars Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, Isabella Rossellini, Carlos Diehz, and more.
READ MORE: ‘Conclave’ Review: Ralph Fiennes Smolders In Slow Burn Vatican Thriller [Telluride]
One of the film’s stars, John Lithgow (“The Crown,” “3rd Rock from the Sun,” “The Old Man”), joins the podcast to discuss his role in the thriller and what ultimately drew him to it, which was seemingly everything.
“Conclave is just extraordinary,” Lithgow gushed. “We didn’t even know what a great film we’d made while we were making it. I think all the elements [attracted me to it] when I was first approached about it, which was a long time ago. It was like four years ago. And when I was approached, Stanley [Tucci] and Isabella [Rossellini] were already in the picture. There was another actor, not Ralph Fiennes, who was playing Lawrence. And I think because Ralph wasn’t available back then, that’s how long ago it was, and it evolved. And Ralph is like the one and only Lawrence. Superb performance.”
“Edward [Berger] wrote me a personal letter saying he couldn’t imagine anybody else as Tremblay, which I’m sure was not true,” Lithgow continued. “In fact, I’m sure several other major actors had passed on the role. But I didn’t expect to be so gripped by another Pope movie, but this one just had such extraordinary truth to it. All the characters were so genuine and so varied as the College of Cardinals is. And the metaphor for this group of dissimilar men and one remarkable and observant woman just fighting it out, trying to define this enormously important spiritual institution. It had such gravity, but it also worked on the pure level of suspense and what would happen next. And who are these people as their secrets gradually get revealed. All those things work together.”
Lithgow has worked with an impressive list of great acting partners in the past, but even after all this time, he still found working with co-star Ralph Fiennes to be an outstanding and surprising experience.
“I am deeply impressed by these people. I must say, especially by Ralph [Fiennes], he’s such an unusual actor,” Lithgow said. “You would think he’d be severe and forbidding. He’s a very dear man. He’s very playful. And he gives so much. He listens so much. And there was never a moment when he wasn’t there off-camera for somebody else. Even when it was supernumeraries with no lines, Ralph would be there so that the scene was being played as if it was a piece of theater, not a piece of film. I don’t know where he got his stamina because he was in every scene of the film, every shooting day. He got no time off. And yet, he’s still going out for supper and wine with us at the end of these arduous days.”
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Like the book that preceded it, the film is making quite the stir with its twist ending—some calling it a triumph and others deeming it absurd. Without going into spoilers, Lithgow discussed how he reacted when he first read the script and the tightrope walk of making it work.
“I was pretty startled. It’s one of those moments where you think, ‘Wow, is this going to work?’ And it’s a little bit different from the book, the way it is resolved in the film in a very clever and smart way,” Lithgow said. “The biggest challenge was to find this remarkable human being to play this part. Nina Gold had a lovely talk with her great casting director, who had cast me in ‘The Crown.’ This movie is her masterpiece. And among the characters in this extraordinary cast, her masterpiece is Carlos Diehz. She worked a year to find this young man because the entire film hinges on whether you believe this character. And they found this actor who’s only begun his acting career in his early 50s. He has never acted in anything more than small parts, just dipping his toe in the water. But he is perfect in this film. And there’s something so genuine and ingenuous about him. And you deeply believe in his faith, which is always the challenge of doing anything related to religion. That’s what made Paul Scofield’s performance in ‘A Man for All Seasons’ so great because you actually believed his spirituality. Well, this whole film is based on that. It’s based on who is deeply spiritual and who is fake spiritual, and every gradation between the two.”
Lithgow is also currently starring in the excellent spy thriller series, “The Old Man,” with Jeff Bridges. The FX and Hulu show is currently airing its second season and follows a retired former spy who is hiding from the agency that once employed him; his life is suddenly upended by a man he hasn’t seen in thirty years. During the interview, Lithgow discussed working with Bridges and the hectic experience of getting the first season to the screen.
“As you know, [Jeff Bridges] is just the most wonderful guy. He has exactly the right attitude about this business and the acting process, which is that it’s really fun and hard work. You’ve got to take it very seriously, and you’ve got to have a great time. Just a great acting partner and a wonderful man,” Lithgow said. “And it’s why I signed on for the series. I was so eager to work with him. But first of all, the first season took about three years to complete. It was just one disaster after another. And on top of that, I barely ever got to work with him until the very end. So I didn’t regret a thing, but it was a crazy time. It’s like being given a thoroughbred horse, and you have to keep it in the barn for three years.”
Lithgow is a longtime TV veteran who has starred in shows like “Dexter” and “3rd Rock from the Sun.” The latter gave the actor a platform to truly embrace comedy and be seen in a less dramatic light compared to his prior work. Lithgow still remembers the show fondly and believes, like many, that they just don’t make them like they used to.
“[‘3rd Rock from the Sun’ was] so f***ing funny,” Lithgow admitted. “It makes you absolutely laugh out of control. Nothing on television does that these days. I mean, ‘The Bear’ is a wonderful show, but it’s not funny at all. That wins all the comedy awards? I don’t get it. We were funny, and we made it a point of honor to keep a studio audience pissing themselves with laughter, and they did – 20-second long laughs. We just killed.”
So, does that mean Lithgow would want to revive the character? Don’t get too excited.
“I can’t do that stuff anymore,” Lithgow said. “I don’t have it. Do you remember how fast I talked and how long the speeches were? I can’t do that anymore. At least not with three days of rehearsal.”
“Conclave” hits theaters on Friday, October 25th. You can listen to the full interview below:
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