Director Duke Johnson Talks ‘The Actor,’ Learning From Charlie Kaufman & André Holland As Collaborator For Life [Exclusive]

Based on the novel “Memory” by Donald E. Westlake, “The Actor,” a Kafka-esque crime-noir fantasy about identity and memory, is the latest directorial effort by filmmaker Duke Johnson, known for his work in animation and co-directing “Anomalisa” with screenwriter/director Charlie Kaufman (“Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind”).

But as Johnson reminds you, you’re more than just your IMDB page, and while “The Actor” is his feature-length live-action directorial debut, the filmmaker went to film school, directed his fair share of shorts, and learned his live-action chops in college. Also, the same storytelling principles apply, so it’s less of a creative leap than one might believe.

“The Actor” finds Paul Cole (André Holland) stranded in a mysterious small town with no memory of who he is or how he got here. Accused of having an affair with another man’s wife—his short-term amnesia leaves him with little recollection of, this so-called crime. Without a sense of identity or purpose, he starts from scratch, courting a local costume designer, Edna (G. As shards of his past slowly begin to take shape from a larger cracked frame, he attempts to find his way home. But time, like memory, is abstract and slippery. Appearances can’t be trusted, and it’s unclear which of his identities is real.

Co-written by Johnson, too, what’s crafted is an elusive, surreal mystery of identity that’s also crafted like a fantastical crime noir, maybe not unlike something like a Guy Maddin film with more genre and narrative. On the precipice of the film’s release this weekend, we spoke to the director about his long journey to make the movie—ten plus years—the influence and mentorship of Charlie Kaufman, and finding his muse in his lead actor André Holland.

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In my basic research for this interview, I realized NEON announced this movie was initially coming out in 2022. I assume it’s been a serious journey.
Oh, yeah, a major journey. I mean, we didn’t even shoot it until the winter of 2022! The pandemic, basically, we were trapped in our apartments. The script went out in 2019, and NEON came on board around 2020. And then we were just developing the script, but yes, a major journey.

So, this is not even finding the material, deciding you want to adapt it, developing and writing time, I have to assume it goes back several years. 2017?
Even longer than that. It’s been at least ten years since we did the first draft of the screenplay in 2015, actually.

Alright, so how does this one come together, how does the book fall in your lap and what strikes a chord?
I read the book while making “Anomalisa” with Charlie Kaufman; he recommended the book to me, and I loved it. We optioned it and my writing partner and I did a draft of the screenplay very quickly, but it was just the book in screenplay format.

The book very much takes place in the in-the-mind internal monologue of the primary character. And that’s not really conducive to a cinematic audio/visual experience. So, I didn’t really know how to make it as a movie, and it took me a while to figure out how to build a world within the film that would attempt to put an audience in the subjective experience of what the main character was going through.

That was a process, and then it was, ‘How am I going to make this?’ Because we don’t have much money and I want to build this world.

Then it took even longer after we shot the film in 2022 because I still needed to fill in some pieces and some holes over the years, which I did very slowly in my own studio in Burbank, California, where I could do little pieces of animation, or I could have a friend make matte paintings for me. So, we shot the main piece of it and then I built more things along the way very slowly.

What you’re saying reminds me of the stop-motion animation process in a way. It’s a long process and takes time to develop and really put those pieces together.
Yeah, I also might just be slow [laughs].

So, you come from the world of stop-motion animation, and then you’re doing live-action for the first time, at least, in a feature. What were your biggest challenges?
Yeah, but the impression of the world is you’re only what you’ve made. But I came from the world of live-action because I pursued filmmaking at film school; I made lots of shorts. I fell into animation, but then I worked professionally in animation for 15 years.

Right, you’re more than an IMDB page.
Yeah, in terms of process, they’re similar. It’s still storytelling and the same cinematic principles apply. So, I made a stop motion movie and then I thought, “I’m never going to do stop motion again because it’s too hard.” And then I made a live-action movie and I thought, “Oh Jesus, that’s really hard because you have the element of a ticking clock. It’s just it’s unbelievably fast-paced, and you don’t have time to do anything.

I’m so blessed by my cast: I have Andre [Holland] and Gemma [Chang] and Andre in particular, being in every scene, in every shot of the movie, he really saved me because he’s literally a first-take master. He’s just so authentically an emotional person and he’s so grounded that I felt there was hope because I knew that he was somebody that at least I would root for, that I cared about, and the cast took me through this process. I hope I always make movies with Andre for the rest of my career.

But there were reasons it took as long as it did because I was very ambitious, and I wanted to do all this crazy stuff with no money. I built an entire city in a warehouse and shot it with no time. And you start your day, and producers say, “You have one hour to do this.” And I’m like, “But I have 20 setups!” And they’re, “Well, can you do it in one? So, you do the best you can. So that’s the main

You developed the script with Ryan Gosling who was once attached to the star and is still a producer on the film, tell me about that process.  

Yeah, in 2019, the script initially found its way to Ryan, and he came on board, and we developed the script together through the pandemic.

And the way Hollywood works, it’s so hard to schedule people that have really intense schedules, and ultimately there became some conflicts in that department. But I’m so blessed with how this one worked out. I’m very grateful to have had that time to develop the script with Ryan, but this movie was always destined for Andre; he’s the ultimate blessing to me. He’s my muse, my savior. I can’t imagine it with anybody else.

The upside is you get to have a creative collaboration with Ryan Gosling, and then you get to have one with Andre Holland, too.
Exactly.

Charlie Kaufman is another executive producer on the film, he urged you to read the book cause he knows you like Kafka and it has that feeling, I’m curious about what you learned from him and what it was like working with him?
Yeah, Charlie and I directed “Anomalisa” together, and he’s a hero of mine. And he’s really just a dear friend and mentor. He’s just somebody that I look up to greatly and call when I need advice, or I’m in trouble, and he’s very generous with his time. He’ll read my script, and he’ll just help me achieve my goals by offering and giving sage advice when needed.

I’ve learned so much from Charlie, and he’s told me so many wonderful things. Like, “Don’t let anybody tell you that you have to direct a movie in a certain way. You should feel empowered to direct a movie in any way that you think a movie should be directed,” which is great conceptually, but very hard to actually do. Because when you’re making a movie, you’re like, “So I want to do this,” And people are very often, to me, especially because I came from animation or whatever, they’re like, “Well, we don’t do that. That’s not how we do things in live action,” or, “You can’t do that,” or you’re met with a ton of resistance when you have any outside of the box ideas.

Charlie, as an artist in general, is extremely brave, and he takes chances, and that’s scary because you make something and then you expose it to the world to be judged. Art is an intuitive, creative process, and especially as a sensitive person, not everybody’s going to love what you do. Some people are going to hate it, and it’s scary.

So, it’s easy to fall into fear and try to pander. It’s hard to stay the course and say, “For better or worse, I have to I have to stick to this. Whatever this feeling is that’s propelling me forward and what I’m trying to do, I have to stay true to it, and I’m going to live and die by the results.”

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I must imagine, given stop-motion animation is not his world, he must have learned a lot from you, too, on “Anomalisa.”
I don’t know. You’d have to ask him. Maybe he learned something; there are certainly a lot of different craft elements. But storytelling and process, there’s a lot of overlap too. I would say if you’re interested in animation and you’re a storyteller and don’t know anything about animation, it shouldn’t stop you from trying because you can always find the people to help you. With me and live-action filmmaking, people could say, “Well, you come from animation. What do you know about live action?” Maybe I know nothing, and there are elements to the specific medium that you have to learn, but in visual storytelling, in particular, the same basic principles apply.

Do you know what you’re doing next? And hopefully, it’s not going to be as many years in between in films.
Yeah, I am. I am fortunately working on something else. It’s ultra top secret at the moment, but I’m very excited about it, and it’s an animation, live-action hybrid. So, I’m very excited about that when the time is right.

Very cool. Are we going to see you work with Charlie again?
God, I would love to. There are no plans currently, but I hope that he’s always in my life, and I would love to work with him as much as I can

“The Actor” opens in theaters this weekend, March 14, via NEON.