‘Dune’: Denis Villeneuve Talks Dreams, Sequels & How ‘Star Wars’ Left Him [Interview]

Frank Herbert’s 1965 spacey odyssey, “Dune,” has long been one of the profoundly influential crucial crown jewels in the pantheon of science fiction. This means, of course, it’s been one of the great white whales for filmmakers to adapt. Alejandro Jodorowsky once famously tried to mount a version in the 1970s, David Lynch made a polarizing version in the 1980s, perhaps his most un-Lynchian effort ever. Decades later, French-Canadian filmmaker Denis Villeneuve (“Blade Runner 2049,” “Prisoners,” “Sicario”) has finally made what many will consider the definitive version of Herbert’s famous novel.

READ MORE: ‘Dune’: Denis Villeneuve Crafts A Spellbinding Arthouse Blockbuster Odyssey About Destiny & Betrayal [Venice Review]

Featuring an insanely star-studded cast, Timothée Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin, Stellan Skarsgård, Dave Bautista, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Zendaya, David Dastmalchian, Chang Chen, Sharon Duncan-Brewster, Charlotte Rampling, Jason Momoa, and Javier Bardem, “Dune” is dense and rich like the novel. It’s a story about the burden of identity, duty, and destiny in a wild, mystical, operatic space epic, and it’s also about family dynasties, oppression, warring cultures, and the battle for resources, all within a greater context of political betrayals, machinations, cultural differences, colonialism ,and bewitching religions (my review from the Venice Film Festival here). “Dune,” in a way, is a lot, but in that sense, Villeneuve and his writers, one of them the great Eric Roth (“The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button”), made the absolutely correct decision to turn the first novel into two movies.

Of course, whether a second movie arrives at all is part of the Faustian deal with the devil that Villeneuve had to make to direct the first part at all. But Legendary Pictures, who owns the rights on “Dune,” seems pretty hellbent to make a big, gigantic franchise out of these novels, so the film would likely have to flop, both on HBO Max and in theaters for them to not move forward in some manner (an HBO Max spin-off series is already in the works).

Speaking with Villeneuve around late September/early October, the filmmaker talked all about his creative journey to make “Dune,” something he’s been dreaming about since his teenage years. For him, “Dune” is deeply influenced by the 1970s, and for him, that means the evocative illustrations of artists like Moebius and Wojciech Siudmak, ambitious and symphonic progressive rock of the 1970s, but also things like “Star Wars,” which itself was influenced by Herbert’s work. A candid Villeneuve spoke about he eventually parted with “Star Wars”— “I never left ‘Star Wars,’ ‘Star Wars’ left me”— giving justice to Herbert’s work, his hopes, dreams, and aspirations for “Dune: Part Two” and much more. “Dune” opens in theaters in the U.S. this Friday, October 22, while simultaneously being available on HBO Max. Selfishly, because I want more, but also for your maximum cinematic experience, I urge you to see it on the big screen if you can.

Hi, Denis, let’s jump right in. I found this movie to be remarkable. I know you read this in high school, but for starters, tell me a little bit about your journey to make ‘Dune.”
I found the book by [pause] — not a coincidence because I was in a bookstore in front of the row of sci-fi books—and it was at a time when I was starting to read a lot of sci-fi, but I was mesmerized by the book cover that was made by a Polish artist, Wojciech Siudmak, a beautiful book cover with that title “Dune.”

I bought the book, but it’s just the artwork at the beginning that it really drew me toward it and those beautiful, strong blue eyes [of the Freeman characters]. I remember being totally engulfed by the story, of course, I was 13 years old, so I was, I so interested by Paul [Atreideis], it was all about Paul and the way that he was struggling with his family, his heritage, political heritage, even religious heritage, a climate heritage, everything, the poor kid having so much of a burden on his shoulders. Paul is trying to find his identity; he is trying to find comfort in the making and consolidating his identity and being in contact with another culture, with the Freeman culture. The way Frank Herbert had described that culture and the way that culture was in contact with its ecosystem— the dramatic ecosystem of Arrakis— and the way he described the religions, all of that was absolutely mesmerizing. I quickly read all the books and quickly became a “Dune” maniac; I mean, I really became a fanatic about “Dune.” At that time, I remember starting to dream about what a movie inspired by these books could look like. And I was so excited when I learned at the time that David Lynch was making an adaptation. I was really excited about the idea of Lynch approaching the book.

I’ll try not to disparage the maestro, Mr. Lynch, and move on. Yet, it’s interesting, all this stuff you’re talking about, about the real depth of “Dune,” the cultures, the religions, it reminds me of a comment you made a long time ago about “Dune” and wanting to make a “Star Wars” for adults. And it’s funny, “Star Wars” has all that, religion, politics, etc., but it’s just far less sophisticated compared to Herbert’s consideration of the same ideas.
It’s a very delicate thing to talk about “Star Wars” because everything will be dissected [laughs]. And I will say that I was also a big “Star Wars” fan. The first two “Star Wars” films and the, one that became “A New Hope” later on and “The Empire Strikes Back,” were by far, movies that had a massive influence on me when I was young—they are probably one of the reasons I’m a filmmaker now. There’s a link, of course, I discovered “Dune” after having seen the first “Star Wars” and, probably after seeing ‘Empire.’ So, these movies, the fact that I was drawn into a book like “Dune,” probably had something major to do with loving “Star Wars.”

Now it’s interesting to know, that as everybody knows, “Star Wars,” in a way, is a very interesting “Dune” adaptation because George Lucas was deeply inspired himself from “Dune” and here I was having to try to make a new adaptation of “Dune,’ but having to deal with the white elephant in the room which is “Star Wars,” meaning that it was a kind of full circle echo: “Star Wars” being influenced by “Dune and us making a movie about “Dune” and being influenced by “Star Wars,” it was an interesting way of seeing things [long pause].

There’s something about “The Empire Strikes Back,” the darkness of it, the tragic elements of it, the way I was feeling in that precise moment about “Star Wars”—there was something really serious about it that I deeply loved. Science fiction is serious stuff for me; it’s something that I love when it considers life and existence serious. That’s what I have so much reverence for “Blade Runner,” the original, of course, and “2001: A Space Odyssey.” When people are taking sci-fi seriously, it’s so powerful. So, there was something in “The Empire Strikes Back,” in its darkness, in the way it was approaching the psychological path of Luke Skywalker. And I just feel like they lost that after. They lost that elegance. And that was maybe something that I was referring to when I said, “Oh, I wish “Dune” was— in a way, my idea was to back to that [early ‘Star Wars’] spirit. You must not publish that; I’m going to be crucified [laughs]. But I totally believe that. I never left “Star Wars,” “Star Wars” left me.

Honestly, I think as a “Star Wars” fan, that’s fair, and I totally get that. What I love about this idea— what you’re really saying, to me, at least—is how “Star Wars” helped unlock your imagination, in the same way, that “Dune” book cover, just the enigmatic, evocative illustration, unlocked your imagination and had a similar effect.
Yes, absolutely. In that sense, it’s a movie that is deeply inspired by the 1970s. Even the music, the way we approach the music with Hans Zimmer, my first direction, I wanted it to have a link to a sacred song that I was singing as a kid in the church; I wanted to, it to be like progressive rock, like operatic prog-rock, you know? The rock from the beginning of the seventies. The movies was inspired also by, European artists that I love, like Wojciech Siudmak, Enki Bilal, Mobius. I mean, that’s where I’m coming from, and “Dune” is part of the birth of— it’s like the big bang at the beginning of where I’m coming from creatively.  So with my production designer, we went back there, we went back to the seventies and there there’s a seventies look to the movie, I think. That was very important. Even the light, the way we approached light, it’s like, everything in our “Dune” is linked with my childhood.

One of the things that struck me was the two-part structure and that decision. And then I saw the movie and thought, “ah yes, this makes complete sense.” I assume it was constructed from the beginning as two parts?
Yes, to make two parts. Yeah, it was a decision that was easily welcomed by the studio, who were, already, envisioning several movies. I mean, the truth is, when they bought the rights for “Dune,” they were thinking about a new franchise, of course. But for me, I was there to make the adaptation of the first book. And I came up with the idea, why? Because the book is too complex. I think it was the only way to give justice to Frank Herbert’s “Dune,” breaking it into two parts. I thought that that was the way to do it and still today, I think it was the only way. Maybe another filmmaker would have been able to make it as one film—that’s very important to say, maybe someone else would have been able to do it in one part. Maybe. But for me, no, I could not.

Well, I certainly appreciated it because it allows for so much world-building and time for the political, religious and cultural aspects of this universe to breathe alongside Paul’s story and to give those ideas context.
Yes, I had to make sure that this story will make sense for someone that knows nothing about the book. And that was the big challenge. How to make this world accessible, but how to to keep the poetry, the richness, the depth of the world, but to make it accessible to people who know nothing about it, but we want to still feel welcomed. That was the huge central challenge of making it.

Well, I think you succeed in that. It’s meditative, it’s operatic, it’s epic, but not at the expense of something entertaining. It’s just not “Star Wars” [laughs].
Yes, it has its own rhythm. I hope people will be interested by the world we are presenting, and the elements that are being brought at the beginning. It’s a story that is unfolding at the beginning at a certain meditative pacing, and then there’s an acceleration, like progressive rock. That was really the idea.

For me, it was very exciting to approach a space opera like that and to really create that exponential unfolding dramatic story, which I thought was an interesting way to go. It’s a challenge, it’s—how do I say it?— it’s not a bet. It’s a bit of a gamble and one that I hope that the audience will embark on this journey with us. But that’s “Dune”

So, I have to ask, “Dune: Part Two,” when will it happen and when will you know if you do or don’t embark on the next part of this cinematic journey?
I don’t know. The truth is, I don’t know. I have accepted the bargain I made. I agreed with the deal that we would make the first part and see if it raises enough enthusiasm that we will make a certain part. Right now, the truth is, things are going super well in Europe, we are really excited about the enthusiasm that the movies has created over there. But I’m not the one who makes the decision. I’m hopeful, but I have no control over that, but I’m at peace, honestly. I’m at peace with that. We’ll see what happens.

Are you saying you’re at peace if it all ends here? That you won’t be heartbroken if you can’t make ‘Part Two?’
Oh, no, I will totally be heartbroken [laughs], but let’s say that I made sure to bring enough of the images I had in my head. I made sure to protect a part of myself. There’s a part of the desire [to make the film] that has already been put onto the screen right now. So, if ever, there’s no part two, I’ll know that I had the privilege to visit Arrakis at least once. That already has been the biggest privilege of my life. So, we’ll see, but I’m optimistic.

“Dune” opens in theaters in the U.S., this Friday, October 22, while simultaneously being available on HBO Max. Selfishly, but also for your maximum cinematic experience, I urge you to see it on the big screen if you can.