To suggest Alessandra Lacorazza did not make things easy for herself with her feature directorial debut “In the Summers” is something of an understatement. Not only was her screenplay broken into subsequent decades, but it required three sets of actors to play the key roles of sisters Eva and Violeta. That meant some unknown actors portraying the siblings as children and, thanks to an indie budget, often shooting multiple eras on the same day. She also took a chance by casting Grammy Award-winning hip-hop artist Residente (credited as René Pérez Joglar) in the pivotal role of the girls’ father, Vicente. The first major acting role of his career.
A casting suggestion from one of Lacorazza‘s producers, the filmmaker says Joglar was “exactly the person” she was looking for thanks to a rough exterior he’s cultivated for two decades.
“He’s a rapper, he’s got the tattoos, he’s got the persona,” Lacorazza says. “There are all these stereotypes that you immediately put on him, and then you listen to his music or you listen to him talk or you watch his documentary and you’re like, ‘Oh, he’s so soulful, he’s so smart, he’s so introspective.’ And that’s exactly what I wanted in this character. I think he agreed to it thinking the film would never get made. And I was like, jokes on you. But he’s just incredible. And yes, he’s never acted, but he’s been in front of the camera his whole life. Man, he could do anything and I think he would do an incredible job.”
Granted, Joglar earned a master’s in fine arts from SCAD before his music career took off. He’s clearly a man of many talents, but this role showcased a side his fans haven’t seen before. Although we’re not sure he’ll ever love his character from the Sundance Film Festival Grand Jury Prize-winning film.
“It’s funny. I think he likes the movie. I mean, he’s been very, very, very generous with his time and very involved,” Lacorazza says. “But I think he hates the character, which for me is always really hard. He always talks about it because he’s a father and he’s not this kind of father. So, I think he has a lot of anger towards the character. Whereas I don’t see Vicente as a bad father. I see him as a failing father but trying, and I think I see a little bit of his beauty a little bit more, but he constantly trashes Vicente. And yeah, we disagree on the character, but we got there.”
Over the course of our conversation earlier this week, Lacorazza reflects on her own sister’s thoughts on this semi-autobiographical story, how the adult versions of the sisters (Sasha Calle and Lio Mehiel) approached their performances, her reaction to John Leguizamo’s speech at the Emmy Awards this past Sunday and much more.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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The Playlist: The structure of this film is wonderfully not conventional. What made you go down this road for your feature debut? What made you have the confidence that you could pull it off?
Alessandra Lacorazza: Well, I love that people call it confidence. I think it’s just a lack of experience and not knowing what you’re supposed to do. But for me, the structure was the first thing that came. That was what was clear to me from the beginning. I was just sitting around chatting with my sister and we were just recalling our summers, and at that point, it was just trying to figure out our chronology. And later that night it just struck me that that was a really interesting way to approach a subject. To see this father in these moments of time through the lens of his daughters, but to feel all those absences and all those gaps and see what has changed and what hasn’t changed in those absences. I just thought that was a fascinating way to approach a film.
I apologize, I don’t know how autobiographical the movie is or is it just partially inspired by your upbringing?
I say semi for various reasons. There’s some plot points that are autobiographical. There are some that are completely made up and fully fictionalized. And also, this is my interpretation. I have two sisters who have a very different interpretation of our lives and my father. So, this is my perspective on it.
Has this caused any rumbles in the family?
No, but I think emotions. I’m very close to both my sisters, especially my sister who’s two years my senior. We’re obsessed with each other is probably the best way to put it. And she’s very supportive, but we have different emotional reactions to everything. And then my youngest sister, my dad died when she was seven. And so I think for her, seeing my depiction on screen of someone that she barely remembers was a very emotional experience. And the same thing with my family. My father was very loved, but also a very controversial figure in some way. So, everyone kind of has their own reaction to it, but everyone had very kind words for me. If they’re mad, no one’s telling me.
It is so hard, especially in indie films, to cast young actors who can come across as grounded and realistic and not as Hollywood-coached performers. How hard was it for you to find the young stars of your film?
It was hard in the sense that I really wanted to go away from these overly coached actors, and I think people felt more secure with casting those people, but I knew that was not the vibe I wanted. I didn’t want someone who had been in the studio system since they were five and already developed all their own ticks and things and were so aware of the camera and the angles. I didn’t want that. I would rather work with a completely unknown and work with them to sculpt it. So, that was sort of the first battle. Advocating for people that felt very real. And then secondly, it wasn’t hard to find the people per se, but it was hard to find the amalgamation of everyone because you needed all of the same actors to talk to the character. S,o the younger one needed to fit into the middle, needed to feed into the older [version]. So, it was about working with my incredible casting director and figuring out the puzzle and then just trusting that your instincts were hopefully right, and then working with the actors to bring out a naturalistic grounded performance.
Did you shoot sequentially with each group?
I wish. That’s so expensive, especially younger. For anyone under 18, after a certain time they expire. You can only have ’em on set. So, we just couldn’t fill the days doing that. We tried to front load with the younger actors, mostly for Renee, for him to start to get comfortable and also to create a memory of a father working with the young kids. But we were sometimes shooting all four summers in one day and it was chaotic and crazy and you’re just trying to make the day,
Was that more stressful than you thought it was going to be? Did you feel like you had a grasp on what was going on every day or did it feel chaotic?
I mean, I think it felt chaotic, but in a way that was expected because I’m like, I knew it was going to be like this, but I was very prepared. I was like, what’s happening today? I can’t tell you what’s happening tomorrow. I don’t know what we’re shooting tomorrow. I don’t know what we’re shooting in two days. And then, as I started to get my legs, I could kind of analyze the week. But it was mostly just responding and being present and in the moment and trying not to worry about what was coming, but being focused on what was in front of me as much as possible.
It’s your first feature. Do you remember, especially with the young kids, maybe one scene thinking “O.K. we’ve got it. This is going to work.” Do you remember having that thought? Ever?
Everyone’s like, “Don’t work with kids on your first film” and all these things, and maybe don’t work with unknown actors and blah, blah, blah. But working with the kids? That was not stressful. It was so beautiful. Kids are so honest. If you’re honest with them and if you’re vulnerable with them, that’s all you get back. So, I had no difficulties working with the kids or any of the actors. My actors were the easiest part of my process, but I think it’s about making actors feel comfortable and about learning about them because each actor has a different way of being able to reach the character. So for me, my job was more adapting my directing style to the actor to have them understand where I wanted them to go. And so I think I probably had certain moments with each actor where I was like, “Oh, this is how I reach them.” For example, with Luciana [Elisa Quinonez], the youngest Eva, she can get in her head a lot. And so for her, I’d ask her permission. I was like, “I have a pillow and I’m about to hit you with it. Is that O.K.?” Just to get her out of her head and be more present and be more in her body. And so that was something that I did with her and just taking the time with each actor and figuring out what makes them tick and how to get them into character.
Especially when you’ve got young actresses, it’s easier to be like, “Hey, please play this character in this manner.” But as they got older, and when you have experienced actors like Sasha and Lio, were you more open than you thought to them bringing their own interpretations to the characters?
Yeah, I mean, I always think of it as a collaboration with anyone. Department heads or whatever. And if someone has a better idea, that’s what I want to go with. I don’t care whose idea it is as long as it’s good. So, if an actor brought to me something that was interesting and that I really liked, I was like, “Let’s do that.” But I also had a very clear vision of what I thought the character was and where I wanted to lead them. So, sometimes they would be just asking a lot of questions to make sure we were on the same page or exploring and then seeing what happened. And everyone had different versions of that. Lio was like, “I understand this character perfectly. I don’t need that. I just need to be in that moment.” So, it was just about talking to them as if they were in character, expanding their life, and filling in the gaps. Whereas with Sasha, I think sometimes it was just letting her try different things and seeing what resonated. So, we had options in the editing room, but sometimes she’d want to take it in one direction or another direction. And just letting her play. I always would let her do a take that was like, forget everything. I said, “Just do whatever you want and just explore.” And sometimes something interesting would happen or sometimes it didn’t, but you learn from that. You learn both as an actor and as a director. But it’s all about crafting something and knowing, I think knowing where I wanted to end up was crucial.
This is Residente’s first real acting role. How did casting him come about? Was he someone you had envisioned for it? How did that even happen?
I am obsessed with that, man. I love him so much. He’s such a talent. My sisters have both been super fans of him since I was a kid. I’ve known of him, but it was not my idea. I thought of him as a musician and a rapper. It didn’t even occur to me, but Alex Dinelaris was one of my lead producers. He brought the name to me and I was like, “Oh, absolutely.” It wasn’t even like, “Oh, let me watch some stuff. Let me see.” First of all, I was like, “Would he do something like this?” But he was exactly the person I was trying to look for and we were going out to the people, but nothing felt as right as René did because he has that rough exterior. He’s a rapper, he’s got the tattoos, he’s got the persona. There are all these stereotypes that you immediately put on him, and then you listen to his music or you listen to him talk or you watch his documentary and you’re like, “Oh, he’s so soulful, he’s so smart, he’s so introspective.” And that’s exactly what I wanted in this character. I think he agreed to it thinking the film would never get made. And I was like, jokes on you. But he’s just incredible. And yes, he’s never acted, but he’s been in front of the camera his whole life. Man, he could do anything and I think he would do an incredible job. So, it was more about him understanding the character and us working on the transitions with the summers because it’s almost like you’re playing a different version of a character. There’s a through line, of course, but there’s so much that happens in the in-between that changes you. And so it was more cultivating that and being specific, especially on a day when you’d have three summers that you’re [shooting]. And so you’d have to recenter. It’s like, “O.K., what summer am I, what happened? What did I do?” It became very seamless. He’s amazing. I hope he does a lot more.
Did he watch his performance? Some people won’t watch themselves on screen.
No. It’s funny. I think he likes the movie. I mean, he’s been very, very, very generous with his time and very involved. But I think he hates the character, which for me is always really hard. He always talks about it because he’s a father and he’s not this kind of father. So, I think he has a lot of anger towards the character. Whereas I don’t see Vicente as a bad father. I see him as a failing father but trying, and I think I see a little bit of his beauty a little bit more, but he constantly trashes Vicente. And yeah, we disagree on the character, but we got there.
Watching the movie, Vicente is at his core trying. And, like all human beings, he’s not perfect and it doesn’t always work out the way he hopes, but I see something positive and optimistic in what he’s trying to do. Sometimes you fail though.
And you get in the way of yourself with the best intentions. You just sometimes can’t f**king do the thing you’re supposed to do and you can’t do it well. But I think there’s a lot of optimism and continuing to try and continuing to show up because some people give up. And I think for me, that shows a lot of character. “I really f**ked up, but I’m going to try again.”
I don’t know if you watched the Emmys two nights ago, but John Leguizamo gave this unexpected and sort of poignant speech about how there’s a lack of representation of Latinx stories, actors, you name it. How important to you is it to you that this movie not only just won Sundance, but has earned critical acclaim, has gotten attention? Does it give you hope, I guess in the future?
I did not watch the Emmys, but I watched his speech though. I’m actually a huge John Leguizamo fan. Growing up in the nineties, I came to the U.S. when I was five. There was no Latin representation. He was one of the few Latin people I got to see on TV. And he’s been in so many films that were completely formative to me. I still watch “To Wong Foo” or “Moulin Rouge” and “Romeo and Juliet.” He’s just someone I really looked up to and was very inspirational. And everything he’s saying is something I’ve been complaining about forever. It’s real. And also the stereotypes that Latins are offered. It’s the gangster, the maid, the sex pot. It just didn’t represent my reality in my life and my family. And for me, that’s also why I watch a lot of Latin American films because that gets closer to the experience. They’re just more nuanced and complicated and something to strive for. So that’s something that I really wanted to cultivate. This is a Latin story, but it’s not about their being Latin. It’s not about their immigration status. It’s not about the language they speak, it’s about them being human. And that’s what I wanted to show. So, I’m incredibly proud that this film is getting attention, but I did it to just reflect my own life back to me in some ways. Do I have hope? I don’t know. I’m not a super hopeful person by nature.
How are you not a super hopeful person? You got this movie made which was no easy task. Is it the people around you?
I am not negative. I just keep pushing and pushing and pushing. And maybe that’s hopeful, but I, I’m not optimistic per se, or maybe I would’ve been in a different life raised by different people.
Maybe you’re a realistic fighter.
Realistic. Yeah, I’m a realistic fighter and I just don’t like to give up. And failure to me is super motivating. I just take it. I’m like, “Great, I’m just going to keep working harder then.” So that’s cool. But I hope things change and I hope every minority gets more attention. Also, we don’t talk enough about disability. That’s also a super underrepresented, and it’s not even a minority. There are so many disabled people in the world, and also one in four of us is probably going to be disabled at some point in our lives, and it’s still not a representation you get to see on screen at all.
That’s one of the horrible things about the contraction of the industry. Those stories still aren’t getting told. Well, maybe more television than film. Indie film is sort of doing O.K. But moving forward, do you feel a responsibility to have to keep telling these stories or is there a part of you like, “No, I want to make a horror movie” or “I want to make a musical”?
I’m always going to include characters that reflect my own experience in the films, but again, I’m not making a film about Latins. I’m not making a film about groups. I was making a family story, and so my next film is set in the military, so very different, but has queer characters in it, has people of different ethnicities, including Latins. It’s just always going to be who I want to see on screen and who I want to write. But it’s almost like I’m not doing it on purpose, it’s just what I want to do.
“In the Summers” opens in New York and Los Angeles on Friday.
