In this week’s episode of The Discourse, host Mike DeAngelo reloads to discuss “John Wick: Chapter 4” with director Chad Stahelski (“John Wick” 1-4). The fourth installment of the beloved action franchise follows Mr. Wick (Keanu Reeves), who has recovered from the final events of Chapter 3 and is back in the crosshairs of The High Table, turning old allies into ruthless enemies. The film also stars Bill Skarsgard, Donnie Yen, Lawrence Fishburne, Ian McShane, Rina Sawayama, Lance Reddick, and more.
During the interview, director Chad Stahelski talked about being shocked that he’s gotten this far, seeing as he thought the first “John Wick” film might have ended his directorial career.
“I mean, after the first John Wick— it was halfway through post [production], we were taking jobs, [I was] going back to second unit, Dave [Leitch] was going back to second unit, Keanu was taking other gigs. We’re like, ‘Now this is a straight-to-video.’ No one’s ever going to see this. I mean, f*ck it, we killed the puppy, you know? We killed 86 people with headshots. There’s no shaky cam,” Stahelski said. “The time we came out in 2014, ‘Taken’ and ‘Bourne’ were at their high points. Our first three family and friends test screenings did not go well, you know? It was still long, we hadn’t had any VFX in yet, and people were like, ‘What f*ck is going on?! What is this?’ We didn’t think of [sequels] at all, and that’s how we’ve approached each one. We’re like, ‘If this is our last job, okay! So be it! We had a good time.”
SPOILER ALERT. With the franchise’s success thus far, fans were shocked to see John Wick die at the end of ‘Chapter 4.’ Much speculation has revolved around alternate endings that were shot and if they considered keeping John alive. Stahelski was able to clear things up and even note that another beloved character may not have survived.
“Did I shoot an alternate ending? Yeah, it’s just a shot or two just to reveal [John], but the studio, to be really fair, and I love to go antagonistic, but they didn’t really fight.” Stahelski shared. “They were just like, ‘Look, we’ll give you whatever you want, but just cover your bases so that we can test against it.’ And the way I look at it is they’re like, ‘Well, I pretty much believe in what we’re doing. I get it, but it would be nice to have something.’ Because whenever there’s a creative question, I used to be against them, and now I’m kind of for the ‘side-by-side bake-offs.’ We’ll show the same movie with two different endings side-by-side in the theater, right? And it’s very interesting because I jump back and forth, and you hear the reaction; it gives me a chance to try different things. But we staggered them so I could see both endings. [They’re staggered] by 15 minutes, and we watched them both. And when Bill Skarsgard gets shot, you know, there’s big cheer, like, ‘Oh, okay, this prick died.’ And then, when Keanu died in one cut, and I had Donnie Yen in that scene – the little tag scene at the end—I had him die in that, as well, you see Donnie die, so it’s a triple whammy, and that got a little heavy. But when we showed him alive, they kind of reacted like, ‘What the fu*k, dude. That was lame!’ So, I learned a lot of things—one, I’m not going to kill everybody.”
And though John Wick may or may not be dead, the universe is still ripe with characters and dark, neon-lit corners to explore, which may come in the form of a new TV series that’s “completely separate” from Peacock’s “The Continental,” which Stahelski was quick to distance himself from, noting that he and his team, “had very, very, very, very, very little to do with it.”
“We’re like, ‘We’re never gonna show the whole high table.’ We’ll show the representatives, but we’ll always keep that hidden,” Stahelski mentioned. “And now we’ve got Lionsgate having us develop the TV show, the John Wick TV show. So, we thought we’d explore the high table in that show a little bit. So we’ll see… I love Donnie [Yen], Rina [Sawayama], and Tracker (Shamier Anderson). Yeah, the show and the ancillaries will give us a chance to expand. We’ll expand the kind of fun world we created, and it doesn’t have to be John Wick, the character-centric. We can explore all that stuff. So, I think TV is a better format for that. You can jump into the backgrounds, and you don’t have to spend so much time with the first act set-ups and all that.”
Stahelski and his production company, 87eleven Productions, have also been doing second-unit action and stunt work on many beloved action franchises, most notably, two of Marvel Studios’ best, “Captain America: Civil War” and “Captain America: The Winter Soldier.” The question then becomes, why hasn’t Stahelski helmed his own Marvel film? Stahelski says he’s definitely taken the meetings but doesn’t know if he’s the right fit.
“Let me be very generous to them. I feel they’ve been very generous to me,” Stahelski started. “They’ve always been— a lot of the directors and Kevin [Feige] and Marvel—have always called either me or someone on our team to really help them with their action and do all their other stuff. Our stunt teams have been involved in some of their biggest movies. They’ve always treated us really well and given us opportunities to learn and stuff. I’ve had several conversations where it doesn’t matter whether or not I loved the property or wanted it. Just to have Marvel call you up and go, ‘Hey, would you be interested in this? Would you like to give a meeting on this?’ I’m not going to lie to you—when you talk to Kevin [Feige], who I think is a brilliant, brilliant man, or you get into that machine. Of course, especially at the high points, it’s very flattering even to be asked to have a meeting, and I’ve had a couple of those, and I love talking to those guys. But, you know, everyone at a certain level is very honest with each other. It’s like, ‘Look, I love your world. I love you guys. I would love to do this. I don’t think I’m the best guy for it. know what I mean? I’m not that guy. I think some of the directors have that sensibility that fits with that Marvel mode, and I mean, the tone and the rhythm, what they did with ‘Thor’ and what James [Gunn] did with ‘Guardians,’ there’s a tone there. I just don’t think I would be as good at that.”
So, what’s next for Stahelski? Well, there are two well-known and beloved properties he’s circling that should get action fans excited.
“Yeah, there’s two I’m really stoked about. It’s ‘Ghosts of Tsushima‘ and ‘Highlander,’ Stahelski said. “Those are the two that have always brought us the furthest. We have scripts that we’re pretty stoked with. We have a concept we like. Those are the two ones I love the most. When you read about “Rainbow Six” and all of these other things in development that I’d love to do, because with people like Michael B. Jordan— I’d love to work with him. I think he’s super awesome. And some of the other shows we’re attached to—we have a TV division here that we’re working on. There’s nothing that you probably read on my iMDB page that I don’t love. It’s just a matter of scheduling.”
“John Wick: Chapter 4” is now available on Digital HD and Blu-ray. You can hear the full interview below:
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