Jon Bernthal Talks ‘King Richard,’ How To Reboot ‘The Punisher’ & What Makes A Great Coach [The Fourth Wall Podcast]

Few actors are defined by the word “badass” the way that Jon Bernthal is. From playing the tragic villain Shane Walsh on “The Walking Dead” to the Marvel Cinematic Universe‘s version of the brutal Frank Castle in “The Punisher,” right down to roles where he isn’t cracking heads—his eerily spot-on portrayal of Lee Iacocca in “Ford v Ferrari,” for example—Bernthal exudes an endless cool and charisma, while still looking like he could take on anyone in the room if he needed to. Bernthal is, in fact, so good at this, that his versatility beyond those qualities sometimes gets underappreciated.

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This year, in Reinaldo Marcus Green‘s beautiful sports biopic, “King Richard,” all of that is set to change. In this story about the rise of the legendary Serena and Venus Williams, and their equally legendary father Richard, Bernthal plays the sisters’ coach and trainer Rick Macci, presenting audiences with a powerful supporting performance that is vulnerable, warm, and subdued. It may even be the actor’s best performance. “It’s this meditation on parenting, on fatherhood, and on family. It really explores youth sports and the full spectrum of it, how beneficial it can be in the development of a kid’s life and development of character,” said Bernthal, relating “King Richard” to his own upbringing with sports. “I think that is the story in this project.”

While “King Richard” certainly focuses on Richard Williams, the endearing, quasi-paternal relationship between Macci and the Williams sisters also sits close to the heart of the film. “I grew up playing sports, and I just have so much respect and love for a lot of the coaches that I had in my life,” said Bernthal. “The first time I talked to Serena, she told me that her time at Macci’s Academy was one of the happiest times of her life. He made everything fun, and I loved to play a coach that’s not traditional in movies and TV, the hardass taskmasters who use humiliation and intimidation, constantly yelling.”

Additionally, Bernthal highlighted an integral part of his youth, one that “King Richard” portrays, that he feels is now missing in youth sports. “Playing sports meant getting together with kids in the neighborhood, playing in a field, a park, playing other kids that you never know,” said Bernthal. “You learned how to compete, how to deal with other people. I think nowadays, you don’t play unless it’s organized. It’s so skill-based. Kids are specializing so early, going to private batting coaches, doing strength and conditioning when they’re three years out of diapers. I think the result is, you’re not learning how to compete, you’re just learning how to be good at a sport.”

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Of course, between all things “King Richard,” there’s one thing at the front of the minds of every Jon Bernthal fan: will he ever put on the skull again and step back into the shoes of Frank Castle? “The character’s very much of my bones,” said Bernthal. “That said, I also know how important this character is to so many people. I just don’t want to see the character being handled in a light way. I would only want to be a part of it if it was done the right way. He’s an extraordinarily dark character that is not looking to escape that darkness. I think that’s a really difficult road to go down these days. I would love to do it if we could do it right. It’s not it’s just not about doing it, it’s about doing it right.”

During our conversation with Jon Bernthal we discuss his performance as Rick Macci in further detail, as well as gushing about the D.C. area sports franchises, the problems that are taking the joy out of youth sports today, the deleted “King Richard” scene Bernthal most wishes remained in the cut, and more!

“King Richard” is now playing in theaters and on HBO Max.