In the surreal and Kafka-esque drama, “The Actor,” starring André Holland (“Moonlight”)and Gemma Chan (“Crazy Rich Asians”), New York-based theater actor Paul Cole (Holland) is wrapping up an out-of-town engagement when a casual adultery has a disastrous consequence. Helmed by filmmaker Duke Johnson, known for co-directing “Anomalisa” with Charlie Kaufman (“Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind”), in the film, Cole can’t remember who he was, where he lives, or even, for a time, what he does. His condition isn’t exactly conventional amnesia because he also can’t remember it from minute to minute.
In order to survive, Cole has to piece together remnants of his old life until he can find some terra firma. But the people he encounters, with one notable exception, aren’t too eager to help him. Adapted from a novel by the maestro of mystery Donald E. Westlake, “The Actor” is an abstract, dreamy and sometimes nightmarish thriller co-written by Johnson and Stephen Cooney, supported by a virtuosic supporting cast including Tracey Ullman, May Calamawy, Asim Chaudhry, Joe Cole, Fabien Frankel, Toby Jones, Simon McBurney, and many more.
I saw the movie recently, it’s very Kafka-esque; dreamy, but nightmarish. Tell me about what drew you to the material.
André Holland: Well, one of the things that really grabbed me was when Duke told me that he had the idea to cast a company of actors and then have those actors play multiple parts. That alone really intrigued me.
It was something I had never imagined before as being possible in a movie. I then read the novel “Memory,” which was fascinating. And then, I got a chance to work with Gemma straight up. I’m such a fan. I’m still nervous sitting beside her now, but it’s true! So, it was all those things that made it feel special.
Gemma Chan: I had loved Duke’s previous movie, “Anomalisa,” and when I read this script and then spoke to him about how he was planning to shoot, it sounded like the opportunity to do something just really different with all these practical effects taken from the world of stop motion animation.
There were themes in the script that I didn’t necessarily understand but left me thinking about it and the story afterward, which is what I am drawn to: that ambiguity in it.
André, you said you read the book. And, Gemma, I don’t know if you did, but I’m curious how different it is.
AH: Duke can tell you more specifically, but he truncated many things and shrunk the timeline. He made some logistical moves, but the book’s overall feel is well captured in the movie. He did a nice job of keeping its essence. For me, reading was more just to satisfy my curiosity and to figure out some little details about who this person was that might be helpful.
One of how he departed from the book was by casting me, an actor of color, in the central part, which I was excited about. And, to me, it felt like it’s not every day that you get an opportunity to step into a role in a movie like this. So when Duke called me and said he wanted me to do it, I was like, ‘Hell yeah. Let’s, let’s get busy.”
GC: I did not read the book before we shot the movie because I wanted to focus on what was there in the script and not be too distracted. I read it afterward, but more out of curiosity, and the themes really resonated with me. What’s our identity? The idea of multiple selves is what we have in life. I have that sense when I look back to earlier periods of my life; it’s me, yes, but it feels like a different lifetime ago. I’m a different person now.
I like the idea of creative coalescing; when researching a role and something gels, you get that kind of eureka moment that unlocks the character. Did you find that?
AH: I wouldn’t say that there was necessarily one thing that unlocked it, but for me, it was wrestling with that question of who the character is. Who am I? Which is what the movie is about. Who are we really? And then, at this moment that we’re in right now, nationally and globally, who are we? One of the things that was wonderful to discover was the answer to that question came not from Paul sitting in a room alone, journaling or pontificating, but while in a relationship with someone else. It was through his relationship with Edna that he rediscovered who he was. And that person he discovered himself to be is different than the person he found out he used to be, which also says a lot about our ability to start over, to revise, to pick up where we are and make a different choice, which to me is a compelling thing.
GC: For me, my way into Edna was she’s self-sufficient. She wasn’t really looking to meet anyone else, but then she saw something in Paul, and she felt that they had this connection, and she was made very vulnerable by that. And I think that [André gave me permission and just said, Bring that side of yourself to the role, and see what it brings out in you.”
One of things I find interesting in the movie, and you touched upon this is our capacity for change, coupled with the idea, as he discovers who he is, he realizes that maybe he wasn’t such a great person in the past. But it’s never spelled out and has some strong ambiguity to it. Do you both think about the backstory?
Yeah, I feel like that was another part that really grabbed me. When this movie came along when we were making it, I happened to be in a place— not to be too personal here— but at a place in my life where I was considering some of the choices that I had made in the past and not feeling great about those choices; regretting some decisions that I had made.
What I came to understand, or maybe I’m still grappling with, is that there is something more to who we are than— we’re not just the sum total of the choices we’ve made or some weird combination of plumbing and locomotion. Still, something about us is core to who we are that we can always access if we’re willing to. So, discovering that “Oh, yeah, I used to be this other person, but I feel something different now” is possible. Even talking about it now really moves me; it’s a really special thing.
GC: In a slightly smaller scale way for Edna, she is in a particular place in her life, and it’s through her interaction and her meeting with Paul, and as you said— everyone has the capacity to change, and I think that’s about how open to other people and other experiences in the world.
No matter how stuck we think we are or how fixed we are in our worldview, we always have that capacity, so that theme resonates with me.
What was it like working with one another, and how do you think acting opposite one another was different from others you’ve worked with?
AH: I want to say working with you, Gemma, was a dream. You have that thing where I remember the first time we sat down to discuss the characters; I was so nervous and panicked because you could feel the air in the room shift when Gemma was in the room. It was it was a dream. It really was. And every day, I felt like I couldn’t wait to work on these scenes. It was such. And I hope to do some other stuff with you, too.
GC: This is my turn to gush over you, but you were a dream to work with, too. You’re so open, so generous in the way you work, and you’re so talented. He’s amazing. Obviously, I was a huge fan of you from your previous work, and to be in this with you was incredible, so thank you.
So, it’s mutual admiration society, which is wonderful, but what’s the opposite like? Meaning, an actor who’s got a totally different process than you? Can that be great? How do you navigate that?
GC: I love working with actors who want to bring out the best in their scene partner and will be responsive to something different that you might give them, and then they might provide you with something different. That’s what keeps it alive. The only time when I felt it hasn’t worked is when someone is entirely in their bubble, to the point where they’re so focused on the performance they’re giving and you could shout in their face, you could do anything differently, but you’re not going to get anything different from them. And that’s when it’s hard.
But to be honest, however you get there is—if you respect everyone around you, I’m okay with that. And I love working with different actors with different energies and ways of getting into it. But again, it just comes down to that person being generous to their scene. I feel like I can tell when I’m watching something and can see it without getting too much into it [laughs].
AH: I echo that: a lack of listening is usually the most painful thing, and that’s when it feels like work. It’s listening, generosity, and the willingness to take in new information, but not everybody is. Some people decide this is how I’m doing it, and that’s just all there is to it. “I’m not going to be affected, “which then affects how you’re playing because you have to imagine what a response might be or which take they might use to construct the scene. So, in that case, you’re not really acting with someone; you’re acting alone, which is not what the project is.
Tell me about working with Duke because this is his first live-action, and he’s generally known for animation. What was it like?
GC: I love the fact that he comes from a slightly different world and point of view. He really put his trust in his actors to bring an emotional truth to what he wanted to do stylistically with the film. And it was just really inventive. I’ve never shot things that way, with many practical effects. Maybe with a different filmmaker, it would’ve been done with visual effects or fixed in post. But he really wanted it as practical as possible.
So, there’s one scene where our character dances in a bar and then transitions to walking out into the street, so we brought the back wall of the bar set onto a real street, and then it just moved away, so it felt like theater.
AH: Same. It was magical, man. It was a really special experience. He knew what he wanted to do; he had given much thought to it. Simultaneously, he knew where the edge of what he didn’t know was, and he wasn’t afraid of what he didn’t know and knew when to ask. “Can we figure it out, or do you all have an idea?” I admire people willing to say, “I’m not sure, but I trust that we can find something together.”
Do you guys know what you’re doing next?
CG: I’ve got another film called “Josephine” that will make its way into the world, which I shot in San Francisco with Channing Tatum and directed by Beth de Araújo (“Soft & Quiet”). So, yeah, we’re going to get that out now. And then there is something else cooking, but I don’t think I’m allowed to talk about it yet.
AH: I’m not sure what’s next just yet, but hopefully, something great will come along soon.
“The Actor” is in theaters now via NEON.
