There is a lot of discourse about the new limited series “Baby Reindeer.” An utter smash hit for Netflix, the series is an adaption of Richard Gadd‘s stage play, which chronicles Gadd’s real-life experiences with a stalker and sexual assault. Despite Gadd and Netflix’s attempts to do everything possible to disguise or refashion the identities of some of the real-life subjects, there has been unexpected drama over viewers attempting to figure out just who was really who. It also hasn’t helped that the British Tabloids are stirring up rumors and giving the original stalker a media pulpit. Putting all that aside, there are two things people cannot discount from the series. The first is Gadd’s bravery in telling his story so publicly (even if it’s a partially fictionalized account) and, notably, the incredible performance of Jessica Gunning as the series’ stalker in question, Martha.
Gunning, who has had a successful television career in the U.K., most recently on “The Outlaws,” but not well known in the U.S., had already read Gadd’s stage play when an E-mail asking her to audition for the television version appeared in her inbox. The role of Martha, a lawyer whom Gadd’s character Donny soon discovers has been convicted of previous stalking incidents, was a major departure from what she’d played before. And despite her knowledge of the stage production, she was still blown away by the scripts she was provided to audition for the role.
“I went in about four different times just because I think they wanted to make sure the chemistry was right,” Gunning recalls. “And also there was occasional questions a little bit about our age gap because we don’t have the same age gap as the characters in the show, but they kind of aged me up slightly to look a bit more like I was 43, but then the call came through and I’m so pleased that they took a chance on me really. He could have gone a completely different way. It could have been a big name, relatively unknown as well. I’m just so thrilled I got to play her.”
Over the course of our interview, Gunning recalls the almost two-year wait for the show to come out (she jokes she thought “it might never see the light of day”), how Gadd and the show’s director empowered her to make Martha her own character, the surprising response she’s getting from the public, how she almost had her crack at Hollywood fame with the failed American TV pilot, “What about Barb?” and much, much more.
Please note: There are spoilers regarding “Baby Reindeer” in the context of this interview.
_____
The Playlist: I know that you have had a long career in the U.K. on television and in the theater, but has the massive success of “Baby Reindeer” affected your life yet? Can you walk down the street where you live without people recognizing you?
Jessica Gunning: Yeah, I have noticed a slight difference. I feel exactly the same, but then occasionally if I wander out in the streets, people do kind of either gasp or run away. No, they don’t run away. [Laughs.] No. Lots of people coming over. But it’s amazing to hear the response and so lovely to meet people who’ve watched it and love it. It is been a real crazy rollercoaster and it’s only been out for four weeks, which is just nuts.
And it’s still growing. I just saw a graph the other day that usually Netflix shows peak after the second weekend. but not this one. It’s still growing. I don’t know how you were approached about this project, but what were your immediate thoughts when it came your way?
Yes, I’d already heard of Richard because I saw his play years ago, “Monkey See Monkey Do,” which is based on what happened to him in episode four. And he used to do that show at the Edinborough Festival where he’s on a treadmill for an hour talking about that. And I remember just being absolutely blown away by him as a storyteller, but also just as a brave performer, really doing that on stage every night. And so when “Baby Reindeer” came out as a stage show, I tried to get tickets, but it was fully sold out. So, then I kind of bought the play of it, the text, which is a little bit Martha of me and read that. But that was way back in 2019. And then when the email came through with the audition, it said, “Audition for ‘Baby Reindeer.'” I was like, “Oh my gosh, I know what this is going to be,” but I actually never imagined it to have just been written so well. I read all the episodes in one go and was just bowled away by it. I just thought it was amazing. And so then, yeah, I auditioned for it. I think eventually over about four months. I went in about four different times just because I think they wanted to make sure the chemistry was right. And also there was occasional questions a little bit about our age gap because we don’t have the same age gap as the characters in the show, but they kind of aged me up slightly to look a bit more like I was 43, but then the call came through and I’m so pleased that they took a chance on me really. He could have gone a completely different way. It could have been a big name, relatively unknown as well. I’m just so thrilled I got to play her.
Do you remember which scene from the show you ended up rehearsing or auditioning with the most?
Yeah, so the cafe scene we did loads and then we also did the scene where Martha says she wants to unzip him and climb inside him. We did those two quite a lot. But I loved those scenes. And also even with the unzipping scene, I never ever thought it was scary. I just thought it was really sweet. And then I remember I was practicing my lines with a friend and she was like, “Oh my God, this is terrifying.” And I really was so surprised.
In your career have you ever played this intense a personality before?
No, never. Really Never. Actually, I was reminded of the last time I was over here [in Los Angeles]. I did a pilot that never got picked up, which was a remake of the film “What about Bob?” Have you ever heard of that? The Bill Murray film. Joe Port and Joe Wiseman, who do that series “Ghosts,” they did a remake of it called “What About Barb?” And I played Barb, the Bill [Murray] part. And actually there’s a similar chirpy obsessiveness to her, but it was in no way as intense as this and as nuanced and kind of, not to say that that wasn’t nuanced by way, I mean as in terms of the character, but so many different sides to her.
We don’t need to talk about her specifically, but Martha is inspired by a real person. How did you feel you were able to make the character your own?
It was so easy for me to make the character my own because as soon as I read the script, I just connected to her. And luckily for me, I’ve heard now that Weronika [Tofilska] and Richard felt the same. Weronika is the director of [the first four episodes] who set the tone for the show. I think on one of the auditions, she and Richard were like, “Oh, well, we found her” kind of thing, which I love to hear in hindsight. Obviously, I didn’t know it at the time, but I just saw her so clearly in my mind, and so I never wanted to know anything about the real person really. I knew it would muddy it because I’m not doing an impersonation of somebody. All I can do is my interpretation of the character of Martha. And so I didn’t really want to mess it up by knowing anything that was real because that’s not the point of it really. I just kind of did my version of who I thought she was.
Richard is in almost every single scene of the show, but you were in an absolute ton of it as well. Was this a tough shoot for yoy? Did you feel drained at the end of the day?
It was a wide range. Sometimes when you’re doing those intense scenes, like the scene that I have with Teri [Nava Mau] and some of those bus stop scenes especially, it is all pretend this business and it’s all make believe, but your body doesn’t really know sometimes that all you’re doing is pretending. It feels like adrenaline. If you’re shouting and screaming all day, you do feel slightly wired at the end of the day. It’s like when you come off from doing a play, it takes a while to wind down. So, it was an intense experience, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. I just loved it. It’s the hardest I’ve ever worked, but also the most fulfilling character I’ve ever played. It was a real challenge to get it right, and hopefully we did and hopefully we did Richard’s story justice.
After landing the role, was there any one scene, in particular, that you were worried about at all? Or maybe not?
For me, the voicemail at the end, I cried when I first read that. And for me, that was always what used to make me feel the most kind of emotional when thinking about Martha as a character and Martha’s backstory, the reason why she calls him Baby Reindeer. So, I think when we did the voice recording for that, I really wanted to make sure I was properly feeling it just because I just found that so emotional. And also I think the balance of the court scene as well, I think was quite important because her saying that she was guilty was a really big thing. I think every instinct would’ve been to say not guilty, but that was her. I guess the character’s way of saying sorry to Donny really is how I viewed it anyway. So every scene was challenging because some of them, she goes through so many different emotions all in one go. It was like just trying to navigate the kind of balance between each moment.
I haven’t had a chance to talk to Richard, and I know that obviously, he did many performances of not just the original Edinburgh play that you saw, but also “Baby Reindeer” as a stage production. Did this ever feel like this was tough for him to go through this again and again?
I mean, he said himself that it was really cathartic to relive all this stuff, and I think he definitely had a practice run when doing the plays. So, it never felt as his kind of co-partner, it never felt hugely raw or troublingly raw. I think he’s done a lot of work on himself, but I think obviously, especially episode four, that must have been a really tough thing to reenact and go through. But we have a great team of producers who were amazing and the directors were fab. Hopefully he felt supported around all of those stuff that he was reliving trauma wise. Also, he’s a really great actor, so I always thought of him as Donny. I never felt like I was acting with Richard. I felt like he was playing a version of himself all the time. So that was quite good in terms of once removed, he said himself, that’s the reason why he created the character of Donnie. It’s not a documentary, it is him playing a version of himself, which I think probably was beneficial. He could see it as a character more instead of just him.
Now that you know him as a real person, how would you say Richard is different from Donny if you could?
Well, obviously we meet Donnie, his rawest, lowest time. And I think that Richard has really benefited from a lot of work that he’s done on himself. And also doing those plays, like you say, every night for a month’s run or whatever, would’ve definitely got some sort of catharsis out of that. So he is a really different guy and especially now we finished filming and we’re doing all this promotion stuff. We just feel like he’s in a completely different head space, really. And I think he’s really pleased with the response it’s got and how many people have approached him saying how seen they felt. There’s people who’ve been through some of the things to he has and they say to him, they’ve felt alone until they watch this show. And you just think, wow, how amazing is that, that you’ve made something that has changed people’s lives in a way. He works for a charity over in the UK called We Are Survivors, and I think they’ve had something like a 200% increase in people reaching out to them. And about 58 of those have said that it was because they watched “Baby Reindeer,” male sexual assault survivors. And you think that is just amazing. If he’s made that much difference with this show. It’s incredible.
Absolutely. Was there a moment on set or maybe afterward where maybe you saw an episode or you saw a scene cut where you realized this might be something special?
I think as soon as I read it, I felt that. And then actually when I watched it, I was like, “Wow, this is translated so well.” I think the way it was shot by Veronica and her DP Krzysztof Trojnar, it was just so unique. I’ve not really seen anything lit the way it was shot. I was just like, “Wow, O.K. I think we’ve made something pretty good here.” But again, I kind of naively thought, “Oh, it might be a bit of a niche thing that only a few people have seen it” or it’d be a bit slow over because I think sometimes you think things need to be commercial or broad to be successful, and I think that’s not true. I think people are really hungry for true stories that are gritty and messy and not nicely tied up with a bow at the end. And that’s what it shows with this. People don’t necessarily always want happy endings or easy to watch things just to escape. Sometimes they do want to be challenged and made to feel something or made to talk about something or not even. I think it’s O.K. to also be like, “I dunno what I think about this.” I think that’s O.K as well in a good way. We don’t need the answers all the time.
I’m guessing that your friends and family have seen you portray several different characters over your career, but what has the reaction been to Martha? Did they think you had this in you or were they surprised?
I think maybe some are surprised. Yeah, they’ve been amazing and I’ve got so many lovely people that I’ve not spoken to for ages reaching out and saying how proud they are. So that’s lovely. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a character like this, so I think it is a joy of a character. She goes through so many different things. I get to play so many different sides to her. It really is such a challenge as an actor and also a treat of a part. I mean, they’re all so surprised and so pleased for me and the show and everything. They can’t quite believe it really
Now that literally millions of people around the world have seen you in this, if you were to go to back and watch something that I’ve done before, whether it’s a movie or a TV show, what would you tell them to go watch?
Oh wow. I think I’d have to tell them to go and watch a film I did called “Pride.”
Oh, I love that movie.
It’s another true story, but in a very different way. But I just absolutely loved being part of that. It really moved me and changed my life. That film, everyone I got to work with in the show. I mean, there’s so many amazing people and Imelda Staunton, Andrew Scott, it’s just got amazing cast. And I remember actually the screening of that because that is a true story. And the real life people were part of the kind of final moment and they came to see the film and we went to the Toronto Film Festival with them all. I remember Imelda said at the end of that, “If we never work again, we can say we’ve been in that film.” And I just really felt the same. And I feel the same about “Baby Reindeer.” Actually, if I never work again, I can say that I was in that. And you just think, “Wow, what more could you need”?
Well, to speak of a “Pride” connection, I think it would be so amazing if you Imelda and Andrew were all nominated for Emmys.
Oh my God, that would be the dream. It would be so nice.
To be honest. It’s not a reach It could not happen. I hope someone pulls you guys together on the red carpet for a reunion photo.
Oh my God, I would love that.
One other thing, I don’t know when you guys shot this last year, if it was last spring, last summer, last fall.
It was actually 2022 when we shot it. So, it was a year and a half waiting for it to come out.
Oh wow., you were just waiting for it to come out?
Yeah, I think for a bit. I was thinking maybe it won’t, maybe it’ll never see the light of day. Yeah, we were waiting for ages.
In that context. Is there anything you have coming out next that people can look forward to, even if it’s on the BBC or somewhere else that people should look out for?
Yes. It’s on the BBC, a new series of “The Outlaws,” which is a series I do with Steven Merchant. It’s on Amazon Prime Video over here on the 31st of May. So, I play a very, very different character to Martha in that I play Diane, who is community support officer. So yeah, a very different kind of part, but it’s a great ensemble action comedy and it’s really brilliant. And I was also in the writer’s room for that, so that was great. I got write on it too.
“Baby Reindeer” is now available on Netflix