Hollywood is a tough town. It has been for over a century. But something is reassuring about where Karolina Wydra has ended up after the journey she endured over the past few years. Before the pandemic, she’d spent over a decade booking recurring roles on shows such as “True Blood,” “Quantico,” and “Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D,” among others. Then COVID hit. She decided to have kids and, well, the industry became horrifyingly unkind.
READ MORE: Rhea Seehorn On Carol’s “Insurmountable” Task After The ‘Pluribus’ Season Finale [Interview]
After being dropped by both her agent and manager, a casting agency remembered her while filling roles for a new drama that would turn out to be Vince Gilligan’s critically acclaimed Apple TV series “Pluribus.” An out-of-the-blue request for Wyra to audition saw her land the role of Zosia, the primary handler for Carol, played by Rhea Seehorn, one of the few humans not infected by a collective Hive mind that has taken over the planet. The embodiment of this collective, it’s a remarkable and difficult performance to pull off, but Wydra, like many of her castmates, now has a well-deserved Emmy nomination in recognition of her work.
During an interview earlier this month, Wydra reflected on how she thought her career was potentially over, the gift of Zosia, and the long hours of meditation she preps with to play the role. And, yes, she’s beginning that process again for season two.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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The Playlist: What was your reaction to the nomination?
Karolina Wydra: I think my body was in shock for days, and I just couldn’t believe that I was nominated. It’s like you hope and you wish for these moments in your life, and then when they happen, you go, “Wait, what? Is this for real? Is this really happening?” So, definitely in shock. And I was with my husband and my kids, and so my kids are three and five, so they have no idea. They’re like, “Whatever, mom, shut up and make breakfast.” But my husband and I were able to celebrate it, and it was very sweet. And then we all called each other, and it was just the celebration of “Pluribus” and everyone that got nominated. I still can’t believe it truly. I’m doing a panel, and it says “Emmy-nominated” actress. I’m like, “Who’s that?” And I go, “Oh my God, that’s me. They’re talking about me.”
You deserve it, but you’re not the only one who got nominated. Almost every actor from the show with a significant amount of screen time did. Did that mean something more beyond just your own nomination?
Absolutely. I mean, I love everyone that’s on “Pluribus,” and I want everyone to get their accolades. I mean, I felt like Samba Schuttle should have been nominated because he’s brilliant as Mr. Diabate. But we love each other so much that we want nothing but the best for one another. And so with Vince, I’m like, I will be honest. I love “The Pitt,” but I’d be pretty upset if Vince doesn’t win for directing and writing. He deserves all of it. I think he’s such a brilliant mind. And besides being this beautiful artist, he’s just an incredible human being who is just so kind. And same with Rhea. They’re uber-talented people, and they’re just exceptional human beings. So, how could you not be like, “I want nothing but the best for you.” And Carlos Manuel Vesga, who I have this beautiful bond with because I was not working for five years before getting this audition and having an agent and manager. The idea of coming back to this business and how I was going to come back was so scary, not having a presentation, not knowing how I’m going to get this opportunity. And Vesga, who lives in Colombia, he said, “Dreaming of working with Vince Gilligan was not even a possible dream.” So, we share this thing of being cast in this world with Vince Gilligan where that was not even, you didn’t think it was even possible. It was out of the realm of possibility at the time when we got cast for this. So this whole ride has been truly surreal and unbelievable. It’s hard to put it into words because you’re living it and you’re in it.
And unless Vince is somehow wrapping up the show in two seasons, which considering what a massive hit the first season was, I’m 99%…
Don’t say that! He is not.
No, no, he’s not. Let’s be clear.
There’s no way. He’s not. He cannot.
I was going to say, this dream’s going for a while.
I really hope so. I mean, we laugh because Rhea and I, we were quite similar where we have a pretty healthy imposter syndrome. So, when I got the job, I was definitely waiting to be like, “Am I getting killed off? Am I doing a good job?” Not to be so negative, but you do wonder, “Is it now? Is it time?” And I remember she was sharing with me how on “Better Call Saul” when she would get a script, she and Patrick Fabian, and they would go through and be like, “O.K, we’re still in. We’re still in.” And, so, I had a bit of that.
You’ve done some interviews where you shared you’d planned on a year or two off to have your kids. And then the pandemic sort of happened during it.
I’ll tell you, the time that I decided to have family was so outrageous. It was the lockdown in July, maybe because we were just locked up in the one-bedroom apartment that we’re just going bonkers with two dogs, that we decided to procreate. We’re like, “I think it’s a really good time to make some babies.” You know what I mean? It’s all going to s**t, but maybe, maybe it’s not going to be that time. [Laughs.]
Maybe they’ll be fine. But maybe they’ll be O.K.
And so I was very, very lucky to get pregnant quite quickly. And also the timing was crazy because my grandma, who raised me, was dying and I couldn’t go visit her in Poland, but I found out I was pregnant right before she passed away. So, I had this beautiful serendipitous moment to share with her. Anyway, so I’m sidetracking, but when I gave birth to Atticus, things started to open up. And then it was important for me to be a stay-at-home mom for at least two years at the beginning of their life. And my agent decided to part ways. And then my manager followed, which was really terrifying and painful. We make this choice, and you hear that about actresses talk about it all the time to take time away from kids. It’s like you’re taking yourself out of the game. And I have friends, actresses who want to have more kids, and they’re like, “I can’t. I need to work. I need to make money. I can’t have another kid. I can’t take that much time off.” And sometimes Hollywood can forget you quite quickly because there’s somebody else coming in, and then you get to a certain age, and there’s less roles, and you’ve got to stay relevant and got to stay consistent. You’ve got to stay in projects. And so it is quite a scary thing to do. And so when that happened, it was heartbreaking. And so then I decided to have another child, and I had my second son very quickly. And then when I was ready to start working again, it was right after the strikes. I was like, “I don’t know if I’m ever going to go back. How am I going to go back?”
And this audition came through out of nowhere. I got an email from an agency, and I was on their roster. I never worked with them. And she said, “Hi, there’s this request for an audition. Her name is Anna.” And I go, “O.K.” I wrote the lady back, and I said, “I’m sorry, but can you give me more details? What is this for?” You can’t just be like, “Sure, why not?” And she comes back, and she said, “Vince Gilligan, Apple TV.” So that’s all I knew. Vince Gilligan, Apple TV, the character is Anna. The description is a “kind, nice person.” That’s it. That’s all I know. And obviously when I saw Vince Gilligan, you go, “Oh my God, what? This is insane.” I say this seriously: it was a dream of mine to work with Vince. And I was with ICM, and he was with ICM. And I remember I used to ask my team, I’m like, “Please, anything. Internally, can I meet Vince? Can I audition for anything?” And it never happened. And so here I was with an opportunity to work with someone that I admire so much. And at first I wasn’t going to do it because I was too scared.
Wait, you seriously weren’t going to do it. You seriously were going to say no?
Oh, yeah. Well, think about it. It’s a funny thing that happens to us as people. Everyone is different, but when you have a big dream, and I remember when I did “Sneaky Pete” and I was playing love interest to Bryan Cranston, I was just so in awe of him, and he’s on another level of a human and a talent. And so I remember when I met him, I used to sit there and watch him and go, “God, I hope one day I get to work with Vince Gilligan like he did.” That was my little secret. And when you haven’t worked in that long, and you’ve been a stay-at-home mom, you’ve been living in a different reality. There is a part of you that goes, “Well, if I don’t get it, then my dream is over. This is it. I don’t have an agent, I don’t have a manager.” I had a friend, and he just reminded me that we had dinner and he’s with a tiny agency. And I said, “Hey, do you think you can then maybe talk to your agents?” He’s like, “Hey, if you want to, I can talk to my agent and see if they’re going to represent you.” And I was like, “Oh my God, amazing.” And he didn’t tell me this until the other day. He goes, “They actually said no to you, so I hope they’re kicking themselves now.” And obviously there’s that other part of, come on, you have nothing to lose. Just do it. The way I prepare for my roles, I do dream work. I tap into the subconscious of myself, into the subconscious of the character, which comes from Carl Jung. And I absolutely love this work. I did a dream for her before I auditioned for it. And I channeled something, something that aligned, where I understood this character. She lived in my body in the way I’m like, “I don’t know why, but I get her from the sides. I don’t know why, but just kind of aligned.” And I remember I was doing it with a friend of mine, and she said, “There’s something happening in this room.” And she said, “I have a very good feeling about this.” And I went, “Are you kidding me?” I’m like, “Come on now, that’s just crazy.” But I had a lot of fun playing her. I sent it in, and two days later that lady reached out to me and said: “They want to see more material on you.” And then it was Christmastime, and they said, “We have to wait two weeks because we’re going on a Christmas break and we’ll let you know if anything happens.” And then January 3rd [they told me they wanted to test me]. And I was just like, “What? What?” And thank God I was with my best friend, Caitriona Balfe, who’s on “Outlander” and was in “Belfast.” She’s f**king magnificent. She lent me her manager to make the deal. He got me a lawyer. The lawyer called, and he made the whole deal. And that’s when I found out the significance of the character. And they said, “So you’re number two [on call sheet].”
And at this point, you had not auditioned with Rhea, correct? You had only recorded a standalone?
No, I didn’t audition with Rhea. Before the test, Vince wanted to talk to me. When I get excited, I can turn into a little puppy a little bit. I just get very excited. And Vince has such a calm energy about him. And I was just beside myself meeting him. And then he said to me, “Oh, I just spoke to Bryan Cranston about you.” And it was just so insane. I was sitting there going, “This cannot be happening. How is this happening?” And then I met him at the test, and I had a lot of questions about the character and the world after I read it because it was just obviously, when you read it, I couldn’t put it down because it’s such a ride and it just takes all these different places. And then you realize what the world is that he created. And interestingly enough, I did tell him…I went to India two years prior, and I happened to stumble upon Jainism, and I went to the Temple of Jainism. And I took this beautiful photograph of their priest. And they kind of live what “Pluribus” is in a sense that they wear masks, so they don’t even swallow animals like bugs. They walk so they don’t stomp on any bugs. They live really at one with everything, with nature. And they’re very present for what they eat, how they eat, how they are about themselves in the world in a very spiritual, beautiful way. It’s a very extreme way of living, but it was very interesting to visit that temple and have a sense of that. And I talked to Vince about it because it just reminded me a little bit of an aspect of “Pluribus” of living so one with nature with this planet that you don’t even kill a bug. And that’s how these people live. And then I auditioned with Rhea [who] was just so giving, so kind. When I did a take, she would ask me, “What do you need from me?” You could tell she wanted me to get the job. She would give me whatever I needed for me to shine and to do my best work. I found out recently that they were running out of resources because they searched my character worldwide, and they couldn’t find her.
Oh, wow
They said they had over 5,000 submissions worldwide. They went through their digital database, and they just couldn’t find her. The [casting agency has] this cabinet in their office that it’s all handwritten notes from all the actresses they have seen over the years. And so he was going through all the handwritten notes, and he came upon my picture, and that’s how I got the call.
But I also heard that they remembered you from one of the films you had done.
So, I used to audition for them a ton, and I was up for a lot of projects. “Halt and Catch Fire,” I was up for that. They would always bring me in. But they didn’t see me for five years because I was out of the game for a while. But thank God that they remembered me when they saw my picture, and they went, “Oh wait, that girl, what happened to her?”
Going back to the manager and agent part, that is somewhat insane to me. If you are an actor or you’re a writer and you go to your manager and agent and you say, “Hey, I’m going to have kids. I’m just taking a couple years off.” What skin is it off on their back to just be like, “All right, put your file to the side, call me back in five years.” But to have to ditch you, that makes absolutely no sense.
The only way I can justify it is people want to make money. The one part for me that was hard to understand is the manager. Because the agent, I’m like, “O.K., if it was a male.” Doesn’t have the same attachment. He has big clients. He’s got to take care of that. And he’s like, “You know what? This is not working out. I don’t know when you’re back.” But I think for the manager, I was very disappointed. That was the part I went, “Wow.” That was a disappointment when you have. It’s not that I excuse men because it’s not that, but when you have a female [manager], and we are there to support each other, to understand each other. Maybe because I’m of that world, no matter what, I’m there for my women. And I love women, and I’m a girl’s girl, and Rhea is the same way. I want to uplift women and make them shine. And I do that with all my females, and I love them, and they mean the world to me. So, when another woman doesn’t understand those things, I go, “Wow, that I cannot get behind. That’s really hard for me. That’s where it’s hard for me to get behind understanding of…” But then again, I’m like, “Maybe they have a thing with kids. They don’t care. And so they don’t have…” Which I can get behind. Do you know what I mean?
I mean, I’m just going to say…it’s still not O.K. It just doesn’t make any sense from a logistical standpoint. They’re not having to do any work. You’re basically saying, “I’m in timeout. I’ll call you back in a couple years. If you can take me, you can take me. Great.” They don’t have to formally drop you. It just doesn’t logically make sense.
It doesn’t make sense, but can I tell you something? Some things happen that I hear people get a job and then the agent drops them because they’re dropping at the agency. Things are shifting.” And you go, “But they just got a job, and you just made money.” But they’re like, “Yeah, but we have to focus on these other actors.” Age has a lot to do with it. I was 40, honey. So age has a lot to do with it. I don’t know if I was like 23, would’ve been the same. I don’t know what the reasons were, but it happened. And I’ve had friends that were dropped by agents at times where it was very confusing. And it’s painful, I’ll tell you that much.
But last laughs on them because you’re an Emmy nominee. Before I let you go, you reference dreams to find your roles, your characters. But Zosia is everyone. She’s representing the Hive. And there are moments of the show where the real human who had been her comes out a little bit. How did you use dreams to find her if she’s representing everyone?
Well, this is the fascinating thing. When you’re talking to the subconscious, the dreams also guide you. So for me, in my dreams, the big key for me with this character was a lot of meditation. And the reason why I mentioned that is that when you meditate a lot, daily for a long time, the ego kind of washes away and you get in touch with something greater than yourself energetically. You are your body, but energetically you’re in the collective. It feels like you’re part of a collective. And so you strip the ego. And so for me, being in that vibration and frequency, that’s where Zosia lives. There’s an energy to her because she’s a fully fledged human being. Let’s not forget that. She’s not a robot. She’s a fully fledged human being that’s altered to be part of this collective. She communicates telepathically, and she can perform and do anything at the best level of humanity. So, it was also tackling things piece by piece, rehearsing for things, and making sure that whenever I did anything, I looked like I’d done this millions of times and I was the best at it. That was one thing that was part of rehearsals and understanding with the C-130, the excavator, the helicopters, all these things. I had to really study and learn how it all works. So then it’s seamless when I do it. But the moment in the kitchen where Zosia pauses. And the reason why she pauses because she has to dive into the collective to retrieve the memory, because it doesn’t come to her like that. You see the individuality but within the collective. It’s Zosia within the collective that you see. It’s not the Zosia who Zosia is, but she has to go and retrieve the information to make it come alive in this moment to satisfy Carol’s need for that question. We talked about that. How she doesn’t have the information even when she talks about her boyfriend or girlfriend, whoever she was with in the past. When Carol, in episode nine, asked her if she ever had someone. All of it, it doesn’t come quickly. It’s just like there’s always a pause. She needs to tap into the collective, retrieve the information, and then give the information.
Is that something that Vince put in the script or is it something that you all talked about?
Something we talked about. Yeah. Those are all the things that we would talk about. We would always fine-tune it on the day. We would play around with the tone of that and have the discussions of what’s happening right now. And that was the thing. She doesn’t remember this. She has to go into the collective and retrieve it. Same as feelings of. She doesn’t operate in the full spectrum of feelings. Even when the world cries in episode four, we talked about that because we’re talking about the level of how they cry. They’re not weeping and have ugly cries where you’re just affected by it. And as a human being. You would have a visceral response to the drug, and you would have an emotional reaction that you’re dying, you’re this and that, and the world is crying. They’re just tears. It’s just very simple, serene tears that they’re there, but they don’t cry like a normal human being. It’s just like their sadness comes as if water pours down out of their face, and they don’t feel it the same way. They have that sadness, and it comes out in the physicality, but they don’t feel it the same as a regular person. Even with the grenade scene at the end, we talked about how she still has that pleasant smile, and that pleasant smile is for Carol, for her not to worry. “Help is coming. It’s O.K. Don’t worry. We’re going to be O.K.” Do you know what I mean? So they don’t operate emotionally in the same way. They have all the, you could say, the goodness and the negative feelings, the heavy feelings, the rage, the grief. They don’t experience that. They have a memory of it.
I know the show’s supposed to come back next year, so I believe you guys are shooting sometime relatively soon. I don’t know if it’s public yet. But you talked about how you meditate to prepare for your roles. For playing Zosia again, do you feel like you’ll have to give yourselves two weeks to get in the zone? Or is it like riding a bike once you’ve done it now that you figured her out, you’ll be able to just go do it?
No, I have to retrain myself again because I did a lot of physical work for her too. Because our emotions live in our bodies, I have to physically get prepared to let it settle in my body so it lives differently in my body. It takes me more than a month of prep, every day of meditation, to get the collective. I have to do relaxation for my body every day. I mean, I would do relaxation every day on set between takes, relax my body. You can’t just fake it because the camera will pick up certain things. It takes a lot of prep, a lot of dreams, and I need to reenter her to where she lives. It takes time.
“Pluribus” is available on Apple TV
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Editor-at-Large Gregory Ellwood is one of the entertainment industry's most respected journalists and critics. Based in Los Angeles, he's the only current awards expert who previously worked on Oscar campaigns at a major movie studio. Over the years, he has written for the LA Times, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, and Vox, among others. He also co-founded the entertainment news site HitFix, which spawned a legion of influential Emmy and WGA Award-winning alumni.
