Malcolm Spellman is the mind behind Disney+’s biggest hit to date, “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” (at least according to third-party sources, Disney won’t release internal viewing statistics). You can imagine his internal frustration, however, over a recent trade industry article that suggested that because he wasn’t given the traditional “showrunner” title (he’s credited as head writer), his contributions were overshadowed by Marvel Studios’ creative executives. During an interview last week, Spellman, whose writing and producing credits include “Empire” and “Truth Be Told,” admitted he purposely hadn’t read the story but clearly did not like the insinuation he was brought on simply as a “writer for hire.”
READ MORE: “Captain America 4” movie in the works with “Falcon and the Winter Soldier” writer
“I think there’s this image that people have of Mickey Mouse looming over your shoulder, telling you what to write and what not to write,” Spellman says. “I already said it in an old interview; at no point did Marvel flinch. “
Where Spellman was closed-lipped was regarding reports he’s moved on to write “Captain America 4” and whether “Falcon,” which is being submitted in the Drama Series category for Emmy consideration, would return in some form for a second season. That being said, during our conversation, he provided more insight into his thoughts on the character of John Walker (portrayed by Wyatt Russell), the different sides of the “villains” in the series overall, and, most notably, a recent encounter with a fan after Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) finally took over the mantle of Captain America toward the end of the series.
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The Playlist: In all honesty, are you tired of talking about this yet? Have I reached you at the end of 350 interviews about this show?
Malcolm Spellman: No, man. I’m proud of this one, so I’m happy to run my mouth about it.
Before we talk about the show itself, there was a story this past week about the lack of the “Showrunner” title at Marvel Studios television programs versus the company’s use of “Head Writer,” specifically for you. Did you feel like you were the effective showrunner of “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” without the title?
I feel like you’ll probably get a gauge of me and be able to vouch in this interview. I’m a presence; I’m not a shrinking violet. I didn’t feel any kind of way. I actually didn’t read the article because people told me it made me look shitty, so I can’t embrace anything that’s going to bum me out. It’s just; there’s no way anyone who knows me thinks I’m just a typist. I think it’s a thing people want to present. It’s become a whole fucking narrative, but go talk to people I know. Go talk to Jac [Schaeffer of “WandaVision”]. Nobody feels like that.
Clearly, you must have loved the experience because you’re still working with Marvel Studios. You’re reportedly writing “Captain America 4.”
If Kevin hasn’t said I’m doing “Captain America 4,” we can’t confirm that, but I definitely enjoyed the experience. Like I said, I’m very proud of this project. I feel like, again, a bunch of filmmakers I hang out with knows my voice is in there, and I’m proud to represent it.
So, you can’t talk about “Captain America 4.” Can you speak to the fact that there could be a second season of “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier” even if it doesn’t include Sam Wilson’s character? Even if it’s just the Winter Soldier?
You know who to talk to about that.
O.K., I’ll take that. [Laughs.] Let’s shift to the series itself. I know you began shooting before the pandemic again and then went through a process of re-starting as many different projects did. Was there anything in the show’s narrative at all that changed because of that downtime, because of what was going in the rest of the world, not just because you had more time to rethink?
No, I’ll tell you what happened. I think we were very dialed in, and one of the things we wanted to deal with was this collective sense of unease that regular human beings around the planet are having. I think people feel uneasy about the climate; I think people feel uneasy about the fact that they don’t feel like they can impact anything above their heads. So, when the pandemic hit, and the blip created that feeling, so we had already committed to a global crisis—the blip being [in] the MCU. So, when the pandemic hit, and we shut down, maybe a little bit of shading here or there, but that was an energy we were already trying to capture.
You started with the idea that because half of the world population had vanished because of the blip, borders had come down because all countries had to work together to survive. Was that an idea you had? Was that an idea that Marvel Studios provided?
The harnessing the blip like that was the writers and me, and the creative collective, but yeah, we brought that to the table. The mission statement from me was to try and create something that felt very relevant and create heroes that felt rooted into things that were now of the moment and facing forward. There’s something that sometimes can feel a little bit old school about certain heroes, and shit, there’s such a change in the world right now. I can’t even put it into words, everyone’s going to have different opinions of it, but in a time of flux, so I knew we wanted to capture that.
Was that your goal with John Walker’s character? What I found so interesting about it was not the fact that people disliked him or hoping he was more good than bad guy, but that some people were not only fans of him but very vocal about it. I don’t know if I expected that. Was that your goal to create that sort of conversation?
Yeah. Can’t you say that about every one of the antagonists in it? About Karli (Erin Kellyman), about Zemo (Daniel Brühl) also? Even to some degree, Sharon (Emily VanCamp) they don’t know she’s an antagonist. That was definitely the goal; it was to not only like the best villains or antagonists, always believe they’re heroes. What we wanted to do on this thing was to give the villains a point of view and a philosophy that regular people could get on board with so that you really felt like their motivation was something that resonated with you because that’s, I think, where we’re at right now is the heroes and villains happening around us in the real world right now still all have a connection to somebody who appears in your living room. What I mean is, there was a time where you had villains like Hitler; everybody hates Hitler. Nowadays, the people that we think are some of the worse people on the planet have massive resonance with another demographic that disagrees with you. So, we wanted to sort of create that conversation and have it be embodied in super veins.
John Walker is effectively punished in a way at the end of the season, but some people might be frustrated that he doesn’t get punished enough. Was that intentional, beyond just the fact that clearly, Marvel wants to use him down the road? That justice always isn’t fair in a way? Or was that just how it worked out?
I think that’s consistent with the series, which is we just tried to be honest. No one bought that it would go further than that with him because, in our minds, the kind of people that pulled strings to give him that shield anyway are fans of his and ultimately have plans for him, which proved out to be true. On the same side, I think people, again, in the balance of keeping Walker human, he is someone who had dedicated his life to service to his country. To be anything other than honorably discharged was devastating for him. The proof of that and the proof of how he’s emotionally and psychologically paying a price is, look what he does when he goes to Lemar’s family. He fukking lies to them right in their face, and you can tell it’s sickening to him. So, you’re dealing with someone who is in an existential state, but we would’ve been lying if we would’ve had them throw him in jail for what he did because that is not how it works. When you represent authority, you don’t pay that kind of price.