If you read the trade report earlier this week, which we are dubbing the Marvel TV Reckoning for shorthand—the gist being Marvel scrapped their “Daredevil: Born Again” series, are starting over, and in general, are finally conceding that their method of making TV is not working and are going to try the traditional route, with showrunners, show bibles and all the elements they attempted to do without—this new The Watch podcast from The Ringer is a must-listen and excellent additional context. For one, the timing of it is impeccable, and the featured guest is writer/author Joanna Robinson, who is on the show to discuss her new book, “MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios.”
I don’t personally know her, but I have always deeply respected her from afar, and it’s very clear from this new book and this podcast—she and her co-author spoke to over 100 Marvel sources for the book—that she really understands not only the general thinking over at Marvel Studios but what’s going on there internally.
And so again, perfect timing in the Marvel TV Reckoning, and, yes, one of the first big nuggets of “news” that she drops—though she herself would probably say it’s unconfirmed, but something she’s heard—is that the upcoming “Wonder Man” series starring Yahya Abdul-Mateen II and from exec producer Destin Daniel Cretton (the director of “Shang Chi And The Legend Of The Ten Rings,” and the upcoming “Avengers: Kang Dynasty.” is getting scrapped. How and in what form? Is it starting over like “Daredevil: Born Again”? That’s unclear, and as she’s telling her story, she’s a bit cut off, and the free-form conversation goes elsewhere.
But her exact words are, “Even after we heard about [the] ‘Daredevil’ [situation], I’ve also heard again, The Watch scoop—[ed. something unintelligible, which is essentially her note of not-100%, use caution]— that they are trashing the ‘Wonder Man’ project like there is a lot of stuff that is going to go in the can.”
(Note: some Twitter reporters also claim she said “VisionQuest” is getting axed, but I’ve listened to the podcast twice, and there’s not one mention of that series, FYI).
In the comics, Wonder Man is Simon Williams, a vital member of the 1980s classic “Avengers” line-up and a character with great ties to Vision (more context and details here). Ben Kingsley, previously seen in Shane Black’s “Iron Man 3” and “Shang Chi: The Legend of The Ten Rings,” was supposed to reprise his Trevor Slattery role in the series. Demetrius Grosse and Ed Harris were also supposed to co-star.
Either way, it’s wise for her to be cautious in her reporting, but it wouldn’t surprise us if it’s correct. We’ve already heard multiple times from Disney and Bob Iger that Marvel plans to do so less, scale back, and how some of the TV has inadvertently “diluted” the main brand. So, given all that and the “Daredevil” context, it does make sense for Marvel to rethink their plan and thus scrap a lot of planned shows (sure, “VisionQuest” could easily be one of those, but it’s not mentioned).
The podcast is also filled with other fascinating nuggets of info that we caution that some should be taken as intention but not necessarily as stone-cold facts yet.
The first of these nuggets that immediately applies to the Marvel TV Reckoning is Robinson’s claim—which makes perfect sense given Disney’s desperate need to pivot to TV during the pandemic and needing some kind of content as soon as possible given theaters were shuttered—was that many of their shows were prematurely announced and prematurely shot, not quite finished in their development process, but had to move forward regardless. Robinson alleges that during the Disney Investor’s Day live stream in late 2020—when Kevin Feige and Lucasfilm’s Kathleen Kennedy were trotted out to unveil a boatload of new content—both Marvel and Lucasfilm were told to announce projects that they both weren’t ready to announce because they were still in the development process. Obviously, Lucasfilm has scrapped most of those projects (“Rangers Of The Republic, “Rogue Squadron,” etc.), and the writer points to “Falcon And The Winter Solider” as a prime example of a show that was really rickety because it was reworked over and over again in the writing, shooting, and reshoot process. “They were required to push things into production that they weren’t ready to push into production,” she said. Given the iffy quality of Marvel TV on Disney+, it’s easy to believe and would explain a lot.
Another one of those big nuggets is that Robinson believes that “Avengers: Secret Wars” could serve as a soft reboot for the MCU, essentially using it as an opportunity to purge what’s not working in the MCU and keep what is working and with the multiverse at play, that probably means recasting and or starting over with certain characters. “I think that’s exactly what ‘Secret Wars’ is, and we have a quote from Kevin Feige implying as much,” she said. But again, that’s her educated belief and Feige’s implication, not 100% fact, and as we all know—from, say, I dunno, “Daredevil: Born Again” initially being 18 episodes and now starting over—that plans change. She’s also of the belief that several of the O.G.’ Avengers’ played by Robert Downey Jr. or Chris Evans, could turn up, but hell, that’s everyone’s assumption right now (she also says the multiverse of it all could be a way to introduce a new T’Challa/Black Panther into the MCU).
Another fascinating point of the conversation was about Marvel and whether they were aware that the brand was taking hits in recent years because of the mixed reviews on much of their TV. Robinson said, yes, Marvel is aware, but they were shaken at the reception of “Ant-Man And The Wasp: Quantumania” because they themselves loved it and thought it was a banger. “‘Quantumania’ really shook them because they internally thought, ‘everyone’s going to love this,’ and they put it out, and people didn’t, and they thought, ‘Oh no, our internal barometer is not attuned to what people want anymore.” Given much of the Marvel TV Reckoning theme is Marvel’s arrogance and marketplace over-estimation—aka, they once believed they could just make TV like they did film—fix it all in post—and then rudely came to the realization they couldn’t—it’s easy to believe a studio who thought they had a Midas Touch was upset when a product they thought was good, was rebuffed by audiences.
I have yet to read “MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios,” it just came out on October 10, but honestly, this podcast leads me to believe it must be essentially reading if you’re fascinated by this stuff (and again, you don’t need to love it to be fascinated by the way the sausage is made).
Lastly, speaking of the sausage, the Marvel method, as Robinson puts it, does echo much of what was said in THR’s Marvel TV article but expands on it. In her view, the Marvel Method is hiring filmmakers who can thrive in a team environment and execute—like the Russo Brothers—but the “fix it in post” element is primarily dictated by Kevin Feige who watches the rough cuts of the initial production and then orders reshoots to fix the elements that he’s identified as lacking, missing, or kinda broken (and reiterating that Marvel builds in a reshoot schedule to all their films, because it’s part of their process: 1) hunt and gather in production, 2) bring it all back, let it be reviewed so see what could use fixing and then 3) fix those elements in the reshoots.
You don’t need to love the MCU to find this fascinating—and I surely am one of those people, deeply perturbed by their waning TV content but fascinated by the behind-the-scenes of it all, so I highly encourage everyone to listen to this podcast (and not for nothin’, but The Watch podcast is one of the best TV pods in the game, regardless). Listen to the whole conversation below.
