This was the first in-person Sundance since the pandemic’s beginning, and seeing a film with an eager festival like “Past Lives” was amazing.
I was like, I will never be cynical about Sundance again. I will never be one of those people again who’s like, “It’s so cold.”
It was energizing. It was amazing. It was a packed screening, and we had all the Chicago critics in a row. We’re all together, and you can feel that film’s impact. I love watching movies at home, but you won’t feel that.
I did the Rotterdam jury this past January, and I hadn’t been to Rotterdam in years, and I’d forgotten its reputation for being as avant-garde as it is. The first film I sat down to watch with my fellow jury members in the audience was one of those three-hour movies with no dialogue or plot. I would never have watched that movie at home. It forced me to have a meaningful experience, even though I won’t recommend that movie to all my friends. But still, that commitment gave me an experience.
Speaking of watching films at home, you’ve obviously worked both on films made for streaming and television.
I mean, everything ends up on streaming. Of course, we’ve made “Halston” for Netflix, but that was a mini-series. We made “Mildred Pierce” for HBO. I’ve made a variety of television shows. But we haven’t made a movie fully financed by a stream yet.
Do you feel that that is something that will be inevitable? Or do you think you’ll still be able to keep having a hybrid?
I think that different stories benefit from different ways to experience them. I always remember when Todd Haynes decided to do “Mildred Pierce,” he was talking about the domesticity of the story and how it felt like it should be in your living room. So the kinds of stories we tell affect how we see them and vice versa. I think that’s still true. I mean, I don’t know if you have to parse out that this story is better suited for streaming and this story is better suited for theatrical. I’m not even sure where you would draw that line.
There’s also a major concern about physical media and how it’s completely changed. Many films don’t make it to home video, which is a significant pivot. Like, if you love a movie, you want to own it. At least I do, and right now, sometimes you can’t. And some movies on streamers are even disappearing. Does that feel at all perilous from your point of view?
It’s a good question. That’s honestly just not on my worry list at the moment. But now it will be.
Oh, sorry. [Laughs] “You Sing Loud, I Sing Louder” is a family affair with the McGregors, Ewan, and his daughter Clara, starring in it together, which made me feel very old because I remember when Clara was born.
I remember when she was years old because we were shooting “Velvet Goldmine.”
You’ve seen her grow up and grow into an artist.
With Clara, you know, Ewan and I worked together, and then we kept track of each other. I remember on” Velvet Goldmine,” he found out about “Star Wars.” And he was kind of like, “Oh, you know, I’m not 100% sure I’m gonna do it.” And I was like, “Yeah, you’re gonna do it.” I loved working with him again on “Halston.”
So with Clara, I think her performance is a revelation in the movie, and I remember watching the dailies, and, of course, I expected her to do a good job. We wouldn’t have made the movie if I thought she would be bad. But she brought so much nuance to the role. I thought it was terrific.
And she has a story by credit.
Clara brought the idea to Vera Bulder, and then they brought Ruby Caster to write it. Everyone really contributed, I believe, to the story in the script. And [director] Emma Westenberg allowed a lot of improv and script adjustment.
So it was a natural organic collaboration.
Yes.
I love that. With “Past Lives,” obviously, Celine Song started doing experimental theater. What drew you to “Past Lives”?
Pam read it before it came to us. Pam contacted every agent when the pandemic began and said, “Just send me your best script. I don’t care if it’s already tied up with somebody else. I just want to see them out there.” And she got “Past Lives.” And she was like, “This is really something.” And then came our way. And again, this was something Pam said that I think is really true. Celine didn’t have any experience on a film set, but she really knew the story she wanted to tell. Everything else, you can teach somebody. You can show someone how to read a call sheet and what a grip or an electric does. You can even help them figure out the best way to talk to their director of photography. But if they don’t know the story they’re trying to tell, there’s not much you can do. And Celine absolutely did.
Do you have a certain number of films you’re working on at a time?
We have about five movies that we’ve been working on simultaneously over the last year and a half. I sometimes joke that it’s a volume business, but it is. Films are organic. They decide when they will be born; you can’t just say, we’ll do that when at this point, and that at that point, because what if your actor can only do it, then? What if it’s weather dependent? Or what if the critical location is unavailable? All of those things build into how something gets out into the world.
Once it’s out there, do you pay attention to its reception?
A lot of talk goes into what’s the proper festival and whether the right festival agrees that it’s the right one? There’s no guarantee there. Or is this the right distributor? And if you have a choice, which again, you don’t always, sometimes, the right distributor is the only distributor that wants your movie, and then they are the right distributor. Sometimes you have a choice, and then you’re lucky, and you can weigh that all out. Then sometimes, the reception may not be exactly what you want it to be. But there are ways of crafting the right way to deal with those responses to find still the right audience wanting to see the movie.
I definitely believe every movie has an audience.
Pretty much.
To that point, how a film gets to the right audience is why streaming could have been great and maybe still be great. With theatrical, you open in 6000 theaters or your platform. But streaming, if the idea is that the movie isn’t for everybody, how do you aggressively micro-target them. Those lines have blurred a little.
I remember when Netflix first stated that’s exactly what they did. You would get your DVDs, and then you’d be recommended some DVDs based on what you rented. I remember relatives of mine in Minnesota or Kentucky would be watching movies that surprised me because Netflix had recommended them those films. So maybe they were watching a foreign film that it wouldn’t have occurred to them to watch. That was actually a great thing that Netflix did.
The film industry has always been a balance of business and art, but the vibe I’ve gotten with my colleagues and movie fans is that it feels like the business is overtaking the art in some respects.
I feel like people have been dancing on the grave of independent film since, you know, the Lumiere Brothers. It’s just like, it’s like, yeah, yeah yeah.
They’ve always been in the margins.
One of the reasons I made “Halston,” which really attracted me to that, besides the great character, is that it’s so much about the collision of art and commerce and what happens when they are forced together. That’s what the film business is. And one of the things I think is so invigorating, exciting, maddening, and frustrating about the American film business is that it is utterly commerce driven. Whereas, you know, when I speak in Europe, most filmmakers here work with a healthy amount of subsidies. And I understand why. If you’re going to make movies in the Czech language, you must be subsidized. But this means that independent films in America are forced to consider their audience. They’re forced to think about, discuss, and find them. But I think that makes for a more exciting film culture.
