I’ve been in this business longer than I’d care to remember. I’ve dealt with filmmakers directly on the studio side and as a journalist, I have, humbly, met more directors, traveled to more sets than even I can believe. So, when I tell you that Jeymes Samuel is clearly one in a million, it’s not an exaggeration. There are many filmmakers, producers, and writers who can get by on sheer charisma alone. Others use industry smarts to cover up their lack of genuine talent. Samuel, whose debut feature, “The Harder They Fall,” arrives on Netflix this week, is a genuine triple threat. A package of “I know how to play the game” smarts, unflinching charisma, and, as “Harder” proves, undeniable talent.
The London native first made a name for himself as a musician (partially under the moniker The Bullitts), but his first love was always the movies. In 2012 he made a short film, “They Die By Dawn,” starring Michael K. Williams, Giancarlo Esposito, Rosario Dawson, and Erykah Badu. In another timeline, it would have given Samuel the greenlight to make “Harder,” a feature-length Western he’d been working on four years. It didn’t.
“One guy wanted to fund the movie. He has a studio out here. I won’t say his name,” Samuel says. “He’s an Italian man and he said, ‘Jeymes, you will never make this movie.’ And he wanted to fund it. He went, ‘Jeymes, you will never make this movie.’ I went, ‘What do you mean?’ And he calls me, bro. He goes, ‘Bro, bro, you will never make this movie. Never make this movie. It’s too big. So what to do is take $5 million and do something small.’ He went, ‘If that’s successful, I’ll give you another five and if that’s successful, maybe I’ll give you another five. You three movies and maybe down in the future, you’ll probably make this movie.’ He told me this in 2017, “You are never, ever going to make this move.’ And I looked at him and I said, ‘Thank you for that offer of $5 mill, but this is the movie I’m making first. I’m going to make it.’ And, ‘Why you say this? Why, why?’ ‘Because I wrote it. I’m making ‘The Harder They Fall.” At no point did I doubt if I was making it. I come from Kilburn Lane, from Harrow Road in London. I come from the hood. The fact that I’m in Hollywood speaking to this person, that person, the other person, I knew I was making the movie. It was just a case of the universe catching up to my will.”
Eventually, Neflix came on board. Perhaps it was because they were the only studio to finally understand Samuel’s pitch. Maybe it’s because Jay-Z came on board as a producer. Whatever the case, the 19th-century thriller starring Idris Elba, Regina Hall, Jonathan Majors, and Zazie Beetz, among others, is completed and prepped for a global spotlight. And during the course of our interview, Samuel insists that a longer wait resulted in a much better movie than what he first conceived.
____
The Playlist: Hi there. How are you doing Jeymes?
Jeymes Samuel: Jeymes Samuel at your service.
Congratulations on the movie, man.
Thank you, my brother. Thank you, Gregory. You know how we do? One down, forever to go.
Well, that was my question. I know you made the short what, nine years ago, eight years ago?
I made the short, I think the beginning of 2012. I wrote the short in 2010, I made it in, I think the beginning of 2012. Yeah, so nine years ago.
So was “The Harder They Fall,” the feature that you just made, something that was gestating since then?
“The Harder They Fall” was gestating from a good four years before then. I was speaking about The Harder They Fall with Idris 15 years ago.
Where has your patience come from to stick by and to try to get this movie made?
The patience come with frustrations, the frustrations at what we’ve been fed. With all the things that I’d be doing, I always knew I had to make “The Harder They Fall.” Because I’d still be fed even threw all of that time, the same narrative. In all the westerns that were made in that time, we were either slaves or treated less than human, women being subservient. And that keeps your fire burning and also, just seeing us in period pieces, every time there’s a movie made with black people in period pieces, we’re subservient somehow. The movie could be titled “Jeymes and Greg Go To College in 2019,” because it’s made two years ago, the black guy is subservient. As soon as it’s in the past, we’re subservient. So, that thing keeps my fire burning, I was like, “No, we need to deliver new imagery.” And also Greg, you don’t realize how much time is going past when you’re working on something. For me, it was like one day. I’m working this thing, next thing it’s tomorrow.
Really?
Yeah. I wouldn’t realize how much time is going past because I’m so passionate about what I’m doing. And also, the longer it takes, the better it is. I just have more time to work on it. I scored it and I wrote and produced the entire soundtrack. So the more time to work on the music, work on the score, work on the…I wasn’t, pun intended, slaving away on the movie. I was just working day and night on it. And then meeting people, putting it together, this and that in the oven, and blah blah, and then living and just getting it done. And I think the universe was just ready. At the time when I was first thinking about “The Harder They Fall,” Netflix was sending us DVDs to our house.
That’s true. Yeah.
I don’t know that a regular studio would’ve made “The Harder They Fall.” First-time filmmaker, except give me all the freedom that Netflix gave me, let me compose the music as well and I don’t know that just any studio would’ve done that. When I was first talking about it, no one wanted to hear me.
Your reaction to all this is so much more optimistic than what mine would have been or other filmmakers I’ve talked to who’ve spent so many years trying to get something done. Because I saw your short film. I saw the actors you had in it, it’s really good. It’s an excellent proof of concept to greenlight the feature. Some exec should have said, “O.K, we should give him $10 million to make this movie.” There’s no reason why and especially if you have stars attached. As someone who’s been in this industry longer than you first thought of this idea, it’s frustrating that it’s not like you just showed up and said, “I have this script, I’ve been in the music industry like this.” You proved that you could do this.
10 years ago.
10 years ago! Lots of projects in this town go through like, “Well, this person was attached to it and then it was with this production company and with this and it went back and forth.” Was it like that? Or could you literally just not get people to pay attention?
I really couldn’t get people to pay attention. In this configuration of the script, it was meant to be this and these were the people that were always attached. There was only one person to play Trudy Smith, it was Regina King. There was only one person for Rufus Buck, it was Idris Elba. But along the way, you meet other people and then you’ll get a false start here and you think something’s going to happen there and this and that and the other. But for me, Greg, that stuff is all what I call the space in between. The space between inception and creation is what turns people off. They get halfway through across the Atlantic Ocean and they get tired and they swim back home. Whereas with me, I love the space between. I love getting it done. I’m really, really, really turned on by [someone saying], “O.K., you can’t do this.” “Oh yeah? Watch me. Let’s go!” One guy wanted to fund the movie. He has a studio out here. I won’t say his name. He’s an Italian man and he said, “Jeymes, you will never make this movie.” And he wanted to fund it. He went, “Jeymes, you will never make this movie.” I went, “What do you mean?” And he calls me, bro. He goes, “Bro, bro, you will never make this movie. Never make this movie. It’s too big. So what to do is take $5 million and do something small.” He went, “If that’s successful, I’ll give you another five and if that’s successful, maybe I’ll give you another five. You three movies and maybe down in the future, you’ll probably make this movie.” He told me this in 2017, “You are never, ever going to make this move.” And I looked at him and I said, “Thank you for that offer of $5 mill, but this is the movie I’m making first. I’m going to make it.” And, “Why you say this? Why, why?” “Because I wrote it. I’m making ‘The Harder They Fall.'” At no point did I doubt if I was making it. I come from Kilburn Lane, from Harrow Road in London. I come from the hood. The fact that I’m in Hollywood speaking to this person, that person, the other person, I knew I was making the movie. It was just a case of the universe catching up to my will.
I’m glad the universe did and I’m hoping that we’re not going to wait another eight or 10 years for your next film.
Oh no. Oh, oh no. My next film I’m shooting next year and would hopefully will be released on Good Friday 2023.
Is it for Netflix?
I can’t say. But let’s just say that I had a whale of a time with making “The Harder They Fall” with my guys at Netflix. It’s unreal. Ted Sarandos who I met, just basically had faith in me from the beginning and literally gave me all the creative freedom I needed. Then Tendo Nagenda, Scott Stuber, they just gave me all the freedom I needed to make “The Harder They Fall” and obey my crazy and deliver the movie that was in my head. And Tendo, me and that guy, it’s almost like I know Tendo from the hood. I don’t, we met doing “The Harder They Fall,” but it’s like I know Tendo from the hood. So this is an awesome team.
I saw in another interview someone asked you what challenges you had making “Harder” and you said, “Really there were no challenges outside of COVID.” Which makes complete sense based on when you guys were shooting. But having had this movie in your head for so long, I know this script probably went through numerous iterations. Had you storyboarded everything out? Did you get on set and sometimes go, “Oh wow. Maybe I don’t want to do it this way”?
No. You have to have the element of winging it and shooting from the hip because of COVID. COVID co-directs your movie. The Coronavirus is literally a director, comes on board, tells you what scene you’re going to shoot, tells you what actors you’re going to use. COVID must be a guy because only a guy could be that ignorant. Tells you what actors you’re going to use, “Oh, you think you’re shooting in March with Idris? Watch this! Iris has the Coronavirus!”
Oh, right. Yeah.
It’s madness. That was on my set! We were one day before principal photography. One day. We had shot the rehearsal scene of the opening scene one day before and then the COVID album hit the stores, this new artist called COVID in Tower Records, COVID-19. What? And basically, the whole world got shut down and then, I think the following Monday, Idris tested positive with the Coronavirus. So, we were all in… And you remember at that time, no one knew what it was. So we were all in quarantine and this and that. And even then, I knew I was shooting “The Harder They Fall.” Nothing’s was going to stop me from shooting that movie.
How long did you guys actually have to wait?
Five months, I think. We had to wait five months. And that’s the dopeness of Netflix, everyone thought it was over. I was like, “O.K., well, my hands are going to remain dirty, but I’m making The Harder They Fall as soon as all the dust settles.” I never left Santa Fe, me and Jonathan stayed there. “As soon as all the dust settles, I’m shooting The Harder They Fall.” And there was no other way it was going to turn out.
You stayed in Santa Fe for five months?
Yeah. We couldn’t leave the house and I don’t know Santa Fe and it was actually torture, but it was a sacrifice to make a movie. But the movie, what a movie. Do you know what I mean?
You have this movie in your head. You have incredible confidence in the best way possible, that it’s going to come off and it’s going to be good. But when you were on set, was there a scene, was there a moment that you remember going, “Yes! This is what I’ve been fighting for all this time. This is what I wanted to make. It’s working“?
Every single scene.
Oh, come on! It can’t be every single one.
Greg, watch this. Name me a scene from the movie? Let’s name one. [When they arrive in] Maysville, the white town.
Sure. Yeah.
O.K. When I get to white town, I’m like, “Yay!” O.K. wait, the train. The split-screen, all that’s storyboarded, all of it’s storyboarded, the split-screen voom, voom, voom, voom, voom, voom. “Who here can drive a train?” Everybody but him. And remember, I’m scoring at the same time as I’m shooting. So I’m going along looking at the footage and scoring it. And it was my voice before [the final songs were included]. My editor Tom’s in New Zealand because he couldn’t be there because of Coronavirus, he’ll send footage back with my voice and my instrumentation. It wasn’t that there weren’t complicated scenes where you’ll go home, you’ll go, “O.K., I’m going to go in tomorrow and do that differently and this and that and the other.” But I have nonstop, pure, uncut, unadulterated, excitement, all the time. And I function on excitement. I don’t say, “Cut.” I never yell, “Cut.” I say, “Wicked!” It was literally the last scene, “One, get that horse and a wagon, two.” I was having so much fun. That’s Idris doing the backing vocals on that song. I recorded it in my house.
Oh, really?
Yeah, it’s Idris. “Come out Idris.” And Idris and his security guard, Jamal. “Come round Idris, I need some voices.” Me, Idris, and Jamal. “1, 2, 3, look.” Do you know how much fun this was? Even though it was still challenging, but I can’t call that challenging, COVID was challenging. Even with that every single day, but not the actual shoot, that wasn’t what I regard as challenging. It was too awesome. It was hard, super hard. You had to figure things out. And I had to stand by my guns because I wanted my shots I had storyboarded things I wanted. Like when Jim Beckwourth appears behind Cherokee Bill, all that is tightly storyboarded, “Really? In the back? Voom, voom.” Cherokee standing with a gun, “What you think Beckwourth? Voom, voom.” And Beckwourth’s standing behind. All that was really tightly storyboarded. I worked out all of those shots and then sometimes you switch it and shoot on the fly but I didn’t want to leave anything to chance. And I knew that I could walk confidently if I could look at the whole movie visually before I hit set. So, that way, I’m super confident because I’ve done the work already.
Watching the movie you start to hope that down the road there will be a second “Harder They Fall” or maybe a spin-off of some sort. I don’t know if that’s something you’d even consider, but at any point, did you ever think, “O.K., I’m killing off some great characters in this movie. Maybe I shouldn’t?”
Firstly, I’m always thinking of sequels and prequels. “The Harder They Fall” was always a three-piece for me.
Oh, it’s a trilogy?
It was always, for me, a three-part. When I go backward and I go forwards, there are always three parts so let’s throw that out there.
You probably did not get to see the movie in a real theater until it premiered either in London. What about seeing it with an audience surprised you the most?
You know what? Because I’m the audience, right? Some bits I’ll put a lot of humor in, I’ll pepper it with humor, but how much they’d laugh at those bits and how much they loved those bits. It was like, “Wow, man, I knew that was a good joke, but I didn’t know it was going to go off.” Like when they get to Maysville. There’s nothing that beats watching it with a crowd. Watching a film with a crowd, but nothing beats watching a film with some kind of audience, some kind of crowd. It’s a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, thing.
“Harder They Fall” launches on Netflix worldwide on Wednesday.
