Over the last decade, Ian McShane has played the mysterious and calculating Winston, the manager of The Continental hotel, in every mainline entry of the “John Wick” franchise. In “Ballerina,” the Ana de Armas-led spin-off set between “John Wick Chapter 3” and “John Wick Chapter 4,” Winston returns once more, albeit in a more emotionally resonant and foundational way. From the world of “John Wick,” “Ballerina” follows an all-new character, Eve Macarro (Ana de Armas), who is beginning her training in the assassin traditions of the Ruska Roma and seeking revenge for a dark moment in her past.
The Len Wiseman-directed film also stars Anjelica Houston, Gabriel Byrne, Lance Reddick, Keanu Reeves, and more.
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When we caught up with McShane, the legendary actor reflected on his journey with the franchise, the evolution of Winston, the loss of co-star Lance Reddick, and the fine line between creative input and studio interference on “Ballerina.”
When you stepped in as Winston for part one, did you ever think you’d return once to this character, let alone for 10 years?
No. I don’t think anybody did. All I knew was that when they offered me the script, it was a tight, terrifically paced thriller with a clever idea. I thought Keanu Reeves would be great. And then they say, Who else have you got? And you go, well, we got Michael Nyqvist and Willem Dafoe. I mean, good actors know good material when they see it. And then, when it came out a year later, I remember I was in Atlanta doing a movie. They had a showing in LA. I couldn’t do [the premiere]. I was in Atlanta and slipped in to see the first show on Friday at 11:30. I wasn’t filming till late afternoon. And, you know, it’s always a pleasure when you go, ‘Oh, they made the film of the script!’ Sometimes they don’t.
It doesn’t always work that way.
But I always felt Chad [Stahelski] knew what he was doing, and it’s great when it comes out that way. I remember the last time I had a feeling like that, I made a movie called “Sexy Beast,” which was with Ben Kingsley and Ray Winstone, which again, it was a great script and you go, ‘Well, I wonder,’ then you see the first five minutes, you go, ‘Oh yeah, I can relax.’ When I saw “John Wick,” I went, ‘I can relax. It’s going to be terrific.’ And then suddenly, I get a call saying, ‘We’re going to make “John Wick 2.”’ And you go, ‘Well, terrific!’ Expand the character, whatever. And then comes “John Wick 3,” and I think they were pretty clever each time.
They were smart about retaining Chad and Derek Kolstad and even bringing in a new writer because Derek wrote the second one, and then they brought in Shay [Hatten] and then Michael [Finch] for three and four to add extra stuff. But it’s quite a tight group, and they’re all pretty grounded people. And we all know each other. Your egos are pretty well in check, you know? And I think this time it was very clever that I remember conversing with Basil [Iwanyk] when we did number two or three about “Ballerina.” So this has been in the mix for a long time.
Right. What do you think was the turning point of it getting made?
I think the coup was in casting Ana [de Armas], you know, getting her to do it. After the turn she did in the Bond movie when people went, ‘Oh, why isn’t that character come back again?’ And I said to her,’ It doesn’t matter. All you need is one scene. You don’t need more than one scene in a movie. If it’s a great scene and you’re good in it, that’s all you need.’
And she was terrific in that. And now she’s got a whole movie to explore kicking ass. Also, the fact that they made the character a victim of Roma in childhood made it click. So you’ve got inbuilt sympathy for the character before it starts. So when she comes on screen as a woman, you already know she’s had this childhood of losing a father and losing this and that and she’s bent on revenge. And you’re with that character emotionally for the movie.
She’s the opposite of John Wick. He wants out, she wants in.
Yes. With Keanu, when you kill his dog, you steal his car. He’s already got a dead wife. He can do anything, and you’ll be on his side. And it’s the same thing with her.
Right, and your character organically weaves it all together.
Yeah. Winston’s enigmatic. He’s the keeper of secrets. He’s the whisperer. He knows all of the people.
Yes, and sadly, now he’ll need a new second in command…
That’s the only thing I’ll miss about it. Lance [Reddick] won’t be there if more films happen in the future. The late, the great departed Lance, my partner in crime on this series of films. He and I always talked about our backstories.
Oh, cool! What do you think they were doing before all of this?
We were both government operatives before the government got tired of our services. And then they lent them out to the world of black ops, psi ops, and mercenaries, and God knows what, but you still don’t know.
Maybe they’ll explore that in the future…
I mean, what’s terrific about “Ballerina” is the fact that this takes place between “John Wick 3” and “4.” So if they return and do a part five, they can start doing whatever they want. There’s no Continental anymore. And John is supposedly dead — but if you believe John Wick is dead, I have some land in Florida to sell you. At least another character is alive and willing to do it, so that they can start. That’s nice. They can go into another world, whatever they want to do. If Keanu wants to do it again, it depends on him.
Going back to your backstory, I spoke with Chad [Stahelski] for part four when it came out about how Winston’s backstory with that Peacock “Continental” series wasn’t something he was consulted on very much. And he wasn’t sure if he considered it to be like the real history of the character. Do you have an opinion on that? Did you watch it?
I think I made myself very available. But no, they never asked my opinion, and they should have. I said before — it was something I wasn’t [interested in]. They came with some ideas. They never really asked our opinions. So I don’t really [consider it], I never watched it.
I was interested. But I’d have had a whole different backstory that sounds much more interesting than making that series of the seventies drug run. It doesn’t have to do with the actors. They’re all perfect in it. Apparently, the director was Albert Hughes, but I wasn’t interested in it.
Yeah. Understandable. I do want to touch on just the switch of directors here. “John Wick” has always been Chad, Keanu, and their team. This is a very different team. Ana is number one on the call sheet here. Len is behind the camera here. How much of a different set does that create? Did you need to protect your character more because you weren’t working with Chad?
No, I don’t think so. When they did the movie, nobody hovered around Len, telling him what to do. I mean, he’s excellent. I know he did a fine job on it, but when they saw it all together, it was script-wise that they decided they needed some more emotional pull to the movie. So they did some, not reshoots, new shoots, which they do all the time on film, you know?
It’s just that people freak out, going, ‘Oh, there must be something wrong with the movie!’ Social media loves to comment on everything, so pay no attention to it. They added a bit, which was actually in the original script of “Ballerina,” that they then took out, but then they put it back in again, which is the beginning of Ana’s story as a child. Then you have a whole audience on the character’s side before the film starts. So that whatever happens from then on, she, like Keanu, can kill a thousand people.
So your part didn’t change in the new shoots. Yours was just as-is?
No, it did change. Again, that new shoot added Winston at the beginning rather than having him appear in the middle and having that moment with the child. And I think Len agreed to that. So when we went back to the shoots, Len was there and Chad was there for the extra action sequences, which they did, which I wasn’t part of, but I was there for like three or four days when we shot in Budapest doing that. You know, that opening sequence with Ana as a child, and then the sequence of going to Angelica Houston saying, take her in. So when she comes to see Winston later on, you know they’ve met before. So there’s an instant thing between them, you know?
I’ll wrap this up. I know “John Wick 5” has already been announced. We already know that’s happening. We already know he’s alive…
It’s like the studio, they’ll announce a “John Wick 5.” But it all depends on Keanu. I mean, if Keanu wants to do it, yeah. If he’s up to it, whatever. We don’t know about it. The studio will want to make “John Wick 10” if possible. God bless them, but we’ll see. I hope this one is accepted and appreciated the same as the other four. I think Ana’s terrific in it, and it’s a welcome and great addition to the “John Wick” series overall.
“Ballerina” hits theaters nationwide on June 6 via Lionsgate.
