I only know you from your work and your HBO specials, but it feels like, to me, that you sort of lean into dangerous and almost naughty topics–
Naughty? [laughs]
Not naughty, bad choice of words, but dangerous in the way that it’s like, it feels like you don’t shy away from a provocative subject.
I know you don’t mean it as such, but that’s not it at all. Like, I’m not a precocious child who’s like, “uh-oh, you don’t wanna talk about this.” I talk about things and do things that capture my attention, as an adult who exists in the world. These are the things I talk about with my friends, we talk about love, sex, war, and danger. We talk about the feelings we may be running from and the real problems that we have in our lives, so that’s how my work is. I’m not running towards “oh, this topic is dangerous,” I make things that reflect my life, you know? I’m an adult who makes adult art.
I hear that, and that’s a good response to that. I think, maybe, the other way to frame it is that you seem to tackle every topic, whatever it is, with an intense honesty to it. In a way, you’re like, “if I wanna talk about this topic, okay. We’re going there, and we aren’t going to shy away.”
Yeah, I treat reality like it’s real. It’s not going anywhere. It’s telling a story, but it’s not going to be, “On the Count of Three,” a family movie. If I’m being honest, though, I think people should watch it with their sons or daughters or whomever and sit down and, hopefully, maybe understand what a lot of these kids are going through. Or understand what your father may be going through. I think this is, like, it’s speaking to a real topic that people should think of. Depression’s real, you know; it consumes people’s lives. It’s a cloud that exists over people’s heads, you know? I’m not trying to be edgy, I’m just trying to be honest.
So then, to that degree, what is it about suicide that speaks to you? I mean, every human being has had some level of suicide ideation, right? It’s just human nature.
Yeah, well, that’s a personal topic that we just really don’t have time to get into. Not to like shut down your question, but that is something that requires time, and we don’t have that right now. I will say that I’ve definitely dealt with it in a way. I’ve gone from avoiding it to acknowledging it, to trying to deal with it, and I think that the lessons that I’ve learned trying to take on life as a challenge I have applied to this film.
I was closeted for a long time, right? And coming out was the scariest thing in the world to me. Many times in my life thought I would rather die than actually deal with that. I’m thankful that I have the people in my life that I have that made it okay to face that challenge and made it okay to [laughs] to step out into the other side and make me feel loved. And that continued to give me a reason to live and something to look forward to.
Yeah. I mean, I have friends who’ve committed suicide, and I have a friend that the other day texted me, who thought about ending it all, and the conversation that I had with her was about meeting life’s challenges. Right? We actually talked about the film, and that’s the piece of me that I applied to the movie. It’s optimism in an odd place, but optimism, nonetheless, a target, focus, drive, you know?
Also, by the way, I just have to say that the HBO special is phenomenal and just flooring. It’s filled with such rich empathy and comedy, which you do so perfectly well, and it’s in this too. One thing that you do so wonderfully taking that really difficult moment and then like punctuating it with like humor. Whether it’s that Papa Roach mute moment or the final goodbye like it’s the disarming humor cherry on top. It’s, it’s just a great kind of divide.
Thank you. I mean, you know, that’s just it playing, like some of my favorite moments are moments that were birthed out of tension or sadness. It’s situational and not necessarily joke, it’s just funny because the character is funny, or because of the circumstance. That’s where I like to find humor. So the movie is mostly that there aren’t necessarily hard jokes, you know, it’s jokes of character.
Yeah, for sure. Tell me about your screen partner here, Christopher Abbott, because, I would assume for something like this, you’ve gotta pick the–
Exact one person.
Yes.
That’s so important. I’m lucky to have him. He is a hundred thousand billion times better an actor than I am and I really put the weight of the film on his shoulders. He is a friend and became a closer friend through the process. But, removed from that, he’s just one of the best actors alive [laughs]. It sounds like hyperbole or an odd thing to say about a friend, but he’s just one of the best at what he does.
I was very, very, very, very, very, very, very lucky to have him and lucky that he said yes. Kevin’s an impossible character to get right; it’s almost impossible, you know because it’s someone that can’t be flippant about suicide or flippant about his own condition. And to me, I mean, he’s one of the funniest characters I’ve seen in a movie in a long time. I know, it’s mine, but I’m just saying Kevin’s hilarious to me. I mean, the last 20 minutes of the movie, it’s just gold [laughs]; it was like gold; it’s pure. And it’s honest. And it’s, like, the truest form of gallows humor, and it’s so hard to pull off, and Chris just nails it; he’s an incredible actor.
He’s so real. That’s one thing I love about him
Yeah. Oh, he connects; he named him Kevin. He connects, you know? Again, I’m oversimplifying it…this is why he’s better than me… but he just becomes. He takes one of the wildest swings. This character is bullied by the world and then finds power, we watch him grow over the course of the film, and we watch him become manic over the course of the film. Like I kind of jokingly refer to him as a suburban joker sometimes, but we watch this transition happen. We watch it, really, the moment he snaps and, anyway, I love him.
Yeah. I mean, you have so many great collaborators in this Tiffany Haddish, JB Smoove, and Henry Winkler.
JB in a way that you’ve never seen him before! [claps hands with enthusiasm] like you’ve never seen JB Smoove like this before! I love working with Tiff because there’s just a realness to her that I don’t think a lot of writers even know how to write for. And, she transcends it. Henry Winkler, uh, gives one of my favorite speeches ever; I’m very thankful that he said yes. And Lavell! Oh my God. So funny and also pulls off like a hard joke. He pulls one of the hardest jokes to pull off in a movie.
“On The Count Of Three” is available now on Hulu.
If you are in crisis or you think you may have an emergency, call your doctor or 911 immediately. If you’re having suicidal thoughts, call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) to talk to a skilled, trained counselor at a crisis center in your area at any time (National Suicide Prevention Lifeline). If you are located outside the United States, call your local emergency line immediately.
