Cliff Martinez Talks Working With Steven Soderbergh, Nicolas Winding Refn & More In Career-Spanning Talk [Masterclass Rotterdam]

This week IFFR is holding a wide programme of Masterclasses at Le Jardin Hilton in central Rotterdam. We’ll be bringing coverage of cinematic luminaries including Claire Denis, Jia Zhang-ke and Cliff Martinez, as they recount the defining moments in their careers to date.

From minimalism to maximalism, from scarcity to intensity, Cliff Martinez is a composer of propulsion. His music always has a sense of moving forward. Most known for his extensive collaboration with directors Steven Soderbergh and Nicolas Winding Refn, Martinez’s hallmark percussive ambience has influenced a generation of sound artists. The soundtrack to Refn’s “Drive,” particularly, was a critical and commercial success. From his first film “Sex, Lies, and Videotape,” to “Only God Forgives,” to Soderbergh’s recent TV series, “The Knick,” Martinez has developed a unique textural style, one immediately recognizable. During his Masterclass at IFFR 2019, he revealed the method behind his compositions, his requirements of filmmakers, and his love of the Cristal Baschet, a bizarre instrument consisting of metal and glass rods, played with wet fingers that produce sound out of fiberglass cones.

READ MORE: Steven Soderbergh Talks The Revolutionary Approach To ‘The Knick,’ The Impact Of ‘Twin Peaks’ & ‘The Sopranos’ And More

There is no agreed collective noun for budding composers but plenty came to see Martinez deliver his Masterclass. Moderator Juha van ‘t Zelfde asked for a head count. A sea of arms jutted into the air while the minority — press, filmmakers, accidents — sank sheepishly into their seats. You feared eagerness would produce cacophony. As it happens, this was a fruitful few hours. More illustrative and didactic than other IFFR Masterclasses, this format still encouraged open inquiry, which produced useful discussion despite some wordy, self-serving interventions. In response, Martinez gave enthusiasm, honesty and useful pointers to the hungry musical cohort.

READ MORE: Listen To Cliff Martinez’s Full Score For Nicolas Winding Refn’s ‘The Neon Demon’

Martinez first encapsulates the reason to be a film composer, while offering a quick disclaimer.
“For as long as my father was around he always asked me, ‘What do you do for a living?’ I think he wanted to know and also irritate me, but it’s a good question. I always say you would have to see a movie without any music to see what film composers do.”

“A lot of these clips are in poor taste — they are violent or sexual, or a little bit of each. They’re not family oriented. All I ever seem to do is people getting shot, getting stabbed or doing drugs.”

READ MORE: Exclusive: Nicolas Winding Refn, Cliff Martinez On The ‘Sci-Fi’ Feel Of ‘Neon Demon’s’ Music

Martinez plays two versions of a tense, intercut love scene from “The Knick,” a hospital drama set in New York at the turn of the 20th century, and asks the audience to compare them with and without sound. The difference is unsurprisingly stark.
“Let’s see if I made myself useful. When film music is at its absolute best, they express the thing the images and the dialogue can’t express. In this scene, there are layers, emotion, and psychology that wouldn’t be there without the music.”

“My first reaction was that the scene is distasteful, that Clive Owen plays a much older character while the nurse is just off the bus from Oklahoma. He’s not a bad guy but he’s doing a wrong thing. So made it exciting and romantic from the nurse’s point of view.”

“This series was directed by [Steven] Soderbergh, who I have worked with since 1989. He never has a bright, optimistic scene, and this scene contains bittersweet, melancholy emotions. I get the feeling that for these two characters, this is as good as it gets, that this is the closest thing to a happy moment. I call it Soderbergh-ian joyful.”

“Everyone else in the show was lovably recreating 1900s New York, but the music went in its own path, into modern and electronic. I thought it was a high-risk idea and might not work. I wasn’t sure Soderbergh was serious about it. He was. I saw a lot of think pieces about how the music worked intellectually, reflecting the industrial revolution. Well, I never thought about it like that. You just fit the dramatic requirements. It doesn’t matter if it’s a bagpipe, drum or harmonica.”

On his early working experience with Soderbergh and his development as a composer,
“Soderbergh said, ‘Get rid of the melody, the bassline, the keyboard part.’ All that was left was this drone, and he was like ‘Yeah!’ He wanted music to stay out of the way, to keep a low profile. These instructions developed my style. My music doesn’t show up very often but it has an important role — it doesn’t twist the audience’s arm too hard.”

“My philosophy is that it’s more fun for an audience to arrive at their own conclusions. That’s why I like to use music as a contrast, or ambiguously. That philosophy has got me into trouble over the years with filmmakers who don’t share these ideas. But I’ve become more maximalist with my use of synthesizers. I like music-flavored music more and more. Soderbergh wanted music without melody or harmony, music that was textual and atmospheric.”

Has a film ever been altered to accommodate his music?
“I’ve never been in a situation where a film has been cut due to the music, as usually the film is fully realized. If they have they don’t tell me. It’s usually the other way round: music accommodates existing images and dialogue.”

On how working with Nicolas Winding Refn advanced his musical style,
“Now I want to use music front and center, which works for someone like Refn as he uses little dialogue. His films look to music and images. The quickest time it took me to complete a score was five weeks, for ‘Drive.’ There was no time for second-guessing, trial and error or experimentation.”

“While I was in L.A., Refn was in Copenhagen, and we would talk on Skype every night. It was the first time we worked together and he was very hands on. Things were revised and changed but by and large, we went by first instincts. He was going to use songs, but the producers convinced him an original score would help the film. I didn’t know I was wanted or not, but then I had to prove myself. I like having a big role, but it varies from film to film. Refn wants lots of music in big parts. I like it when there’s a lot of real estate and the music has an important function.”