Andrew Garfield Reveals The 'Hathaway Take' In Tick, Tick...Boom!

Andrew Garfield is a talker. He’s got a lot to say in the best way possible. In fact, over a 25-minute interview on a Sunday morning in early December, the Tony Award winner spoke in-depth about challenging his fears in portraying acclaimed musical talent Jonathan Larson in Lin-Manuel Miranda’s feature directorial debut “tick, tick…BOOM!” His first singing role on stage or screen and a critically acclaimed performance will likely land him a second Oscar nomination.

But, again, Garfield is a talker. And we easily could have gone one for another 25 minutes about the movie. And, yes, that’s probably a good thing.

READ MORE: “Tick, Tick…BOOM!” [AFI Review]

The now 38-year-old actor has taken challenging roles in stage productions of “Angels in America” and “Death of a Salesman.” He’s starred in epic dramas for Martin Scorsese and David Fincher. And he’s stepped out of his comfort zone with pseudo indies such as “99 Homes,” “Under the Silver Lake,and, most recently, “The Eyes of Tammy Faye.” And, yes, he’s fully aware of his need to push himself.

“It’s a strange pathology that I have where I need to feel totally challenged and outside of my comfort zone to feel like I’m alive. And I need to feel alive in that way. That’s that way it goes,” Garfield says. “And again, it’s that thing [with the] song “Why.” It is what Jon is struggling with. It’s like, how am I supposed to spend my time? And for me, I want to spend my time expanding. I want to spend my time here getting to know the whole garden of myself, life, and what it is to be a person. And I think I’m lucky that I get to do that with my work.”

Garfield continues, “It’s the same thing of the agony of playing Jim Baker [in the “Eyes of Tammy Faye”]. It’s like, ‘Oh my God, I never want to play a character like that again’ because it got me in touch with aspects of myself that were just so heavy and painful and isolated and lonely. But then Jon is the opposite. Jon is the kind of character you never want to leave you. You want to always be Jon because he’s someone that is constantly striving for truth, for authenticity. So for me, I love that feeling of being scared. There are two types of fear, right? There’s one type of fear which says, ‘Don’t go there,’ which is when you’re about to step in front of a bus. Move out of the way of a bus. And then there’s the other type of fear, which is, ‘Oh f**k, I have to go there.’ And I think that’s the type of fear I’m always going for. That’s going to initiate me into even more life, even more awareness and awakedness to the miracle of being here and a fullness of being alive. I suppose it is kind of like an adrenaline feeling. But it’s not as simple as that. There’s also a spiritual aspect to it. I want to discover all the parts of me. I want to discover all the parts of what it is to be a person so that I can be here as fully as possible, for whatever reason. And then I have to balance that out with lots of reality TV and chocolate. I need to chill a little bit as well.”

Hey, everyone needs a moment to chill now and then.

Usually, we’d substantially edit down an interview of this length. But, as noted, Garfield is a talker. And it’s hard not to get wrapped up in everything he has to say. (Except for “Spider-Man: No Way Home,” of course. No, we weren’t going there. More than enough time for that down the road.)

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The Playlist: I keep hearing from people who aren’t necessarily even musical theater fans who just totally loved the movie. What sort of reaction are you getting?

Andrew Garfield: It’s such a sweet question. It’s; actually, it’s a strange thing, man. I was really nervous about this film. At the premiere in L.A., when we were first giving it to an audience for the first time, I had a week of anxiety leading up to it. My chest was tight; I resisted giving it away because I loved this film. And I really, really love Jonathan Larson. I love Lin. It’s one of those strange, magical experiences that I wanted to keep very, very pure. And I feel very, very personally connected to the film, very personally connected to the character as well, and the journey. And it’s probably the most emotionally vulnerable and raw that I could ever be on camera in any way. And yeah, it feels very personal. So, on the night of the L.A. premiere, I was like, “I don’t want anyone to see this. I don’t want anyone to have an opinion on it. I don’t want anyone to be able to touch it because it’s such a pure kind of thing,” Right? And then, of course, we have to give it away because otherwise, it was just an exercise in indulgent futility.

And then, to be honest, man, I’m so frankly relieved that I wasn’t wrong. I feel so connected to it.
And the wonderful thing that I’ve been experiencing from people’s reactions and friends and family and random people that I bump into in Calgary or in New York or in L.A. is like there’s a real deep connection and resonance that people are having with it. It feels like how I felt coming out of the theater when I was doing “Death of a Salesman” or “Angels in America.” Someone would come up to my table at breakfast the following day after a show and say, “Hey, I want to let you know, I don’t want to bother you, this is just me saying thank you for the show, thank you for that play. It’s inspired me in so many ways or made me think about things in different ways.” The number of friends I’ve had coming out of the woodwork saying, “I really needed Jonathan Larson now. I needed to be reintroduced to him to reaffirm my commitment to my dream, to my calling, to the thing that makes me come alive. So this came along at the exact right time.” It’s that kind of thing. People seem connected to it, which I find when a piece of art can transcend its medium, and it starts to affect people in their lives in an inspiring way. It makes me just incredibly happy to be a part of it.

You said that you loved Jonathan Larson. Were you a fan of this musical or “Rent” before the project came your way? Or was it something you discovered when someone reached out to you for the role?

Yeah. I mean, I was aware of “Rent.” But to be honest, I wasn’t a big musical theater person. It was kind of new to me in lots of ways.

Andrew, you’re a Tony winner. How can you not be a musical theater person?

I know. It’s blasphemous. You’re right. Yeah. Don’t tell.

I won’t.

No, I’m a theater person, but I suppose I’m not a musical theater person. I have a massive appreciation for musical theater, and I always have. But yeah, it was a new world for me, I think most likely because it was too terrifying to comprehend as being able to do. After all, the musical theater actors are just thoroughbred racehorses. There’s a level of brilliant strength, resilience, rigor that I think is incredibly intimidating. So it was Lin basically who introduced me to Jon, and if Lin was asking me to do something, it was an immediate yes because I love him, and his work is just second to none. So yeah, it was a no-brainer immediately. And then you add to that actual Jon Larson and his autobiographical story of a very important week in his life, and everything becomes a no-brainer. And I love that it’s a story about failure rather than a success story. There’s something so beautiful to me about that because it’s a ritual; it’s an initiation that all artists have to go through in order to really recommit and be fully, deeply committed to their art. And for me, I think it was good that I came to it in a way that was slightly, I don’t know, free, I suppose, of any preexisting notion of the legend of Jon Larson. I could meet the man and come from a deeper place where I didn’t feel this pressure to lionize him.

If you look over your resume, you have incredible stage credits. But I didn’t find anything where you’d ever sung before.

Right.

And by the way, you have a fantastic singing voice, but how did Lin or the producers even know this was up your alley?

I don’t think they did. I guess it was Lin going, “Well, who’s the fit for Jon?” And I think he had seen me in “Angels in America.” He knew I had an instrument vocally and bodily that could withstand the most challenging play ever acted, this eight and a half hour mountain of just awe and terror and hilarity and life and death, [also set] during the AIDS crisis in New York City. And I didn’t miss a show in the year and a half that I did that play. I didn’t have a sick night or a vocal rest day. And I think that made him think, “Well, I think he’s the right actor for this. But also, I think if he’s not tone deaf, he can get there vocally.” He sent me to Liz Caplan, who’s this incredible singing teacher, and that was kind of a semi-secret, subtle audition where she was testing out whether I could get to the place where I needed to get to. I was like, “Are we barking up the wrong tree here?” And she was like, “No, we can get there.” And that was music to my ears, Lin’s ears. And then we were kind of off to the races from there.

Andrew Garfield, Tick Tick...Boom

When you got the final script with the songs, et cetera, knowing that this is your first time singing professionally in a recorded manner, was there one song in particular that you were the most concerned about?

Yeah. I mean, it was “Why” that I knew I would have to sing at the Delacorte [Theater in Central Park]. I mean, all the songs are complex. “30/90” is this runaway train that you have to somehow be in control of and figure out where to breathe. And it has the highest note in the score for me as Jon, and that was that final, “What can you do,” which is I forget the exact, what that note is. But I knew I needed to figure out how the f**k to get there. And then “Louder Than Words” is a tricky, tender song. “Johnny Can’t Decide” is very folky, low-key, sensitive, soulful, internal, soft, quiet, requiring a lot of control. But “Why” was the real terror because I knew that I wanted to give Lin live takes because it had to be because in that moment it’s Jon figuring out, he’s making it up as he goes along, that song. He’s working out this impossible moment in his life as he meets it. And it had to be live. It had to be spontaneous. It had to be a found, improvised feeling.

So, there was no way a pre-record would work for that. And we were filming at the end of the first week of shooting. And I was like, “This is hell.” But it was the best thing to get it upfront just to get it under our belt. And it’s the biggest emotional crux moment for Jon in the film. And yeah, that was definitely the scariest thing. But I think on the second take, Lin came from behind the camera, and I think he said, “We have the Hathaway take.” You know that one take wonder thing. And for a while, I thought he was going to use it as such, but obviously, he and his editors edited it beautifully. But I was very, very happy to hear that. And he was very genuine. And Julie Larson, [Jonathan’s sister], was there that night. And it’s good when the crew is crying. It’s a nice feeling. It’s like, “O.K., thank God we can make the film now.” And that’s not me blowing smoke up anyone’s butt

Sure.

It’s just more like that it took a village to get my voice to the place where I could act that scene and not be worried whether I sounded good. That’s what I’m kind of getting it. It took Liz Caplan; it took Alex Lacamoire; it took Kurt Crowley, Lin-Manuel. Obviously, my own hard work. But it took a village of people to get me to the place where I could just really be present for that song, for that moment, and not think about singing. Just to be Jon at that moment and let him be channeled through me, through that song, through that moment, was necessary.

I hope this doesn’t sound like a cliché question but are you the sort of person who thrives on challenges like this? Many other actors would be scared to death of doing half the things you do, whether it’s an eight and a half hour “Angels in America” or singing on screen as the key character for the first time. But whenever I see you do interviews, you seem to almost thrive on it. Is that wrong?

No, it’s not wrong. It’s right. I do love it. For whatever reason, and it’s mysterious, I don’t really have an answer; that’s what gets me going. I have a strange pathology where I need to feel totally challenged and outside of my comfort zone to feel like I’m alive. And there’s a need of I need to feel alive in that way. That’s that way it goes.
And again, it’s that thing not to go back to the song. Why, but it is what Jon is struggling with. It’s like, how am I supposed to spend my time. And for me, I want to spend my time expanding. I want to spend my time here getting to know the whole garden of myself, life, and what it is to be a person. And I think I’m lucky that I get to do that with my work. It’s the same thing of the agony of playing Jim Baker [in the “Eyes of Tammy Faye”]. It’s like, “Oh my God, I never want to play a character like that again,” because it got me in touch with aspects of myself that were just so heavy and painful and isolated and lonely. But then Jon is the opposite. Jon is the kind of character you never want to leave you. You want to always be Jon because he’s someone that is constantly striving for truth, for authenticity. So for me, I love that feeling of being scared. There are two types of fear, right? There’s one type of fear which says, “Don’t go there,” which is when you’re about to step in front of a bus. Move out of the way of a bus. And then there’s the other type of fear, which is, “Oh f**k, I have to go there.” And I think that’s the type of fear I’m always going for. That’s going to initiate me into even more life, even more awareness and awakedness to the miracle of being here and a fullness of being alive. I suppose it is kind of like an adrenaline feeling. But it’s not as simple as that. There’s also a spiritual aspect to it. I want to discover all the parts of me. I want to discover all the parts of what it is to be a person so that I can be here as fully as possible, for whatever reason. And then I have to balance that out with lots of reality TV and chocolate. I need to chill a little bit as well.”

Listen, everybody has to chill! What surprised you about Lin-Manuel as a film director?

I mean, you wouldn’t know it’s his first movie, that’s for sure. I’m so proud of what he’s done, and I’m so grateful that I’ve been brought on the journey. I mean, I think the thing I wouldn’t say surprising, but was most pronounced, was the joy of the set, which is rare [and] especially remarkable during COVID shooting. We were one of the first productions back during COVID. For there to be a feeling of joy on set? That was what he brought every day, was just this kind of like, “Aren’t we fucking lucky? I love you all so much.” And a real value of everyone’s talent. A real value of what everyone’s gifts were and what everyone was bringing to the table like that. The awareness this is a collaborative art. I’ve worked with a few directors who are more didactic in how they work. And that can go one of two ways. If it’s someone brilliant, then it’s f**king great. And you just go, “Tell me where to stand, tell me what to say, I’ll do it.” But my favorite thing is working with someone who trusts you to bring your own giftedness and actually wants you to bring your own giftedness because they know that that ability will only enhance everything. And that’s the confidence that Lin has in everyone he brings into his circle. And the film is much richer for it, the world is richer for it, and the experience is richer for it. There’s nothing better than feeling like your talent or ideas; your gifts are being honored. That’s the feeling that he gives everyone. There’s no question that he’s going to do exactly what he wants to do. There’s no question that he’s going to supersede all of his own dreams and expectations. And it’s contagious. That starts to rub off on the crew. It starts to rub off on every single department head. And suddenly, everyone’s creativity is thriving at an all-time high because it’s being led in such a way by this seven-year-old master of ceremonies. He is a seven-year-old kid. He’s retained that Peter Pan, anything is possible feeling. And it’s a beautiful, contagious thing.

In the film, there is a number some people are calling it the “Avengers: Endgame” scene of Tony winners. Now that I think about it, it must have been shot without everyone there because of COVID?

Yeah. Totally.

But you at least were there in a lot of it. Can you just talk about that experience working with all those legends, some of whom I’m sure you know? But can you just quickly talk about what that was like?

Oh yeah. I mean, it was so hard. That was one of the scenes that I didn’t get at first because obviously, this was Lin’s invention. It was Lin’s idea that for “Sunday,” the diner would be populated with these musical theater legends of generations past, present, and future. But for me, as Jonathan, it created a tough acting challenge because the lyrics in the song obviously weren’t written with the idea that the diner would be populated by all of Jonathan Larson’s heroes past, present, and future. And the lyrics are, “In the blue silver chromium diner, on the green, yellow, purple-red stools, sit the fools who should eat at home.” I hate these people. I loathe them. And I’m in the mastery of them, and I’m now controlling them, whereas previously they were controlling me. I was the peon, and now I get to lord over them. So, in that first verse, it was excruciating because we did 11 takes, and every single time I got to that lyric of “Sit the fools,” and I’m looking at André De Shields and Joel Gray, I literally crumble inside, and I had to cut it. I had to cut. And I can’t. I’m like, “Sorry, Lin, I don’t know what’s going on. I’ll figure it out. Sorry. Let’s go again.” And I’m getting hot inside. There’s a rash forming on my neck. I’m like, how am I supposed to call these people fools? I don’t know how to do it.

Andrew Garfield, Tick Tick...Boom, Bernadette Peters


And after take 11, I’m like, “Hey, Lin, can I talk to you?” He’s like, “Yeah, what’s going on, buddy?” He’s looking at me like he’s never looked at me before. And I’m like, “Dude; I don’t know how to f**king do this. How am I supposed to call these people fools? They are blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.” And I’m freaking out. And I’m holding the day up. And he’s like, “O.K., buddy, let’s just take a walk.” And I’m like, “You’ve given me an impossible thing to act, Dude. I can’t look at these people, and if I know who they are as Jon…” “Oh no, no, no, you don’t know who they are. We all know who they are. But to you, they’re just patrons.” And I’m like, “Oh, for f**k’s sake. Well, let’s go and shoot then.” And then we did it in two takes, and it was fine. And the only exception to that rule, only exception to that rule is Bernadette Peters, and I was like, “There’s no way I can look at Bernadette and not know that it’s her. We have to honor Bernadette somehow.” He was like, “Totally agree.” So, that was the only moment when the fourth wall was broken to a degree, and Bernadette became the kind of centerpiece for Jon, and the only awareness I had was of Bernadette. So, that got me through it once I figured out the rules for the audience and how they differed from the rules for Jon. That was an essential thing for me to understand. But yeah, for the first 11 takes, I was making a complete fool of myself in front of all these fucking legends. It was horrendous. I hated every moment of it.”

“Tick, Tick…BOOM!” is now available on Netflix worldwide.