When we spoke earlier this month, neither Ben Schnetzer nor this intrepid writer had made our way to the French Riviera. Schnetzer would soon be shooting the hyped fourth season of “The White Lotus.” This critic would soon be racing along la Croisette, reviewing from the Cannes Film Festival. At this moment, however, Schnetzer was taking time to talk about his unexpected role in “The Madison,” the hit Taylor Sheridan series he’s already shot two seasons of. Yes, two seasons. But we’ll get there.
As Van Davis, Schnetzer portrays the sheriff of the Madison River valley, where Stacy Clyburn (Michelle Pfeiffer) and her adult daughters are trying to pick up the pieces following the death of the family patriarch, Preston (Kurt Russell). Unexpectedly, Van sparks with Abigail (Beau Garrett), who seems intent on heading back to New York, despite their romantic connection. Their “will they or won’t they” relationship is a centerpiece of the six-episode first season.
During our conversation, Schnetzer explained his decade-long connection to Sheridan, how he was deep in the casting process for another Sheridan series but didn’t get it, the long process of shooting “The Madison’s” first two seasons over the past two years, finding Van’s Montana accent, his nervousness over shooting a key scene with Pfeiffer, the excitment over “The White Lotus” and much, much more.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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The Playlist: First of all, congratulations on the show.
Ben Schnetzer: Thank you. Thank you so much.
I know you were probably hoping you’d go on a Taylor Sheridan Universe show, and it would probably be a nice hit, but I don’t know if you realized it would be this big a hit, and it was renewed for a third season already, right?
Yes, it was renewed for a third season. Yes, it was.
That rarely happens before the second season has even dropped.
Exactly. I mean, it was a very particular kind of setup this one, because we went and we shot season one without Kurt [Russell]. So, Kurt didn’t do any of his stuff. We went and shot because he was unavailable because he was doing the show that he did with his son. But yeah, I guess in Taylor’s world, he was like, “Kurt’s the guy, Kurt’s who I want. So, he’s who I’m going to get”. And so we shot season one, and then they obviously couldn’t shoot with Kurt and Matthew because in Montana, as soon as that snow falls in September, October, it’s a wrap until basically the following May. So, they shot with Kurt and Matthew [Fox]. And then the impression that we were under was that Kurt and Matt were going to come back the following June to just shoot their stuff, and then they were going to kind of drop the show. But then, kind of the following spring, they were like, “You know what? We’re going to come back for season two and everyone’s going to come with us.” And so they tagged on Kurt and Matthew’s stuff to our season two that we did. And then we just got the go-ahead and got the green light for season three, which is a real thrill.
So you shot this in the summer or fall of 2024, that long ago?
Yeah. So we shot season one in the Fall of 24, and then we just wrapped season two in the Fall of 25.
You’ve done all sorts of things in your career, but I’m not sure a fan of yours would think that playing a sheriff in Montana would be on your bucket list. How did it even come your way?
I mean, I’ve always been a fan of Taylor’s writing. I mean, it’s funny, I’ve been a fan of his for a long time, and he won’t remember this, but he and I actually met when I was at the [2016] Sundance Film Festival with a movie called “Goat.” And he was at a party. It was like an industry party that we were all at, and kind of all being kind of shepherded around to. And I remember just seeing him standing there and going up, and we had a brief chat, and it was right after he had written “Sicario.” “Sicario” was like making the rounds, and that had really kind of put him on the map as a screenwriter. And “Goat” is a bunch of college-aged guys. We were all kind of just like moths to a flame around him, chatting to him and picking his brain. And then yeah, obviously, “Hell or High Water” and “Wind River” came out, and then his television empire started really taking hold. And so I had tested actually for another one of his shows a couple of years prior, and that was my first real kind of meaningful experience meeting him and getting to work on some material with him. And after that testing experience, I had left and like an hour later got an email from him just saying, “Hey man, you did great. You’re not right for the part, but there’s nothing you could have done differently but I’ll keep you in mind, and hopefully we find something that lines up in the future.” And yeah, it’s weird. Even if nothing had come from that, you can tell that he used to be an actor because, as an actor, that goes a long way when you put yourself through the wringer. Especially an old school screen testing experience is very, very singular, and yeah, it meant a lot to me that he was just reaching out. And then this is kind of what came of that. A year and a half, two years later, “The Madison” kind of came my way, and yeah, it’s a gift of a part and a gift of a project. And yeah, I’m just very grateful I get to be on board.
Did he tell you why he thought you’d be good for this role, or did you not have that conversation?
No, we didn’t really have that conversation. I don’t know how many people from Taylor’s universe you’ve spoken to, but he’s a man of few words. He lets his writing do the talking, and he’s a real kind of “no news is good news” boss. So, if something’s wrong, you’ll hear about it. But other than that, and to be honest, I feel pretty comfortable working that way. I think I can be a little socially anxious. The more reverence I have for someone’s work, the more quiet and just kind of internal I get around them. So, I feel really comfortable with this arrangement we have. I think actors are very familiar with imposter syndrome. It’s a real common thing in our line of work. And so whatever you have to do to get yourself over that hump. And when I show
up to work, I always kind of tell myself, if they cast the wrong guy at this point, that’s their fault. I’m just going to do my thing and take notes where they come. But no, I never really found out why, and I never really asked. I think it just kind of was the right fit.
For Van, you get the sides, you realize who he is. I’ve read that you are very precise about accents for your roles. How did you find Van in terms of his accent? Especially if Taylor is just giving the script and sort of letting you guys go with it?
It’s funny, I remember reading the script at first, and then you meet Kevin Zeger‘s character, Cade, before you meet mine. And I remember just in my head kind of reading each character just kind of as they come to me. And I remember reading his character, and it’s funny because Kevin really just kind of came out, but there was a very specific voice in my head that I felt like a very specific rhythm that Cade was written in. And that kind of really sang to me off the page. And then I came to Van, and I didn’t hear it off the page the way I did with Cade. And so I kind of was like, “Oh, I’ve got to find this guy.” There’s a rhythm much different to my own that I think he operates in. But yeah, I think that northern sound, that Montana sound, it’s very specific. And when I think kind of a cowboy or a sheriff’s deputy, the first thing that comes to mind is like Texas, and we’re a long way from Texas. And so yeah, it’s part of the job that I really love is just being specific and being specific with an accent or with a dialect and with regionalisms. And Taylor knows this world so, so well that it’s really kind of integrated into the writing. But I worked with a killer dialect coach named Liz Himelstein, who was great, who I did some sessions with, who really set me in good stead. But I also, a real touchstone for me with this part was Chloe Zhao did a film called “The Rider” and the lead actor in that, Brady Jandreau, who’s also a horseman, a very accomplished horseman and horse trainer, and former cowboy or Bronc writer, he’s not from Montana. I think he’s from South Dakota, but he’s from that part of the world, and he comes from that part of the world. And so I remember rewatching that film early on and subsequently listening to a lot of interviews with him, and his sound and his cadence were a real touchstone for me. And then from there, working with Liz and then speaking to cops in Montana, that kind of honed the journey until I kind of landed where I landed with it. But for me, it’s always, I’m a New Yorker, so it’s always anytime I work, whether it’s playing Van or anyone, I’m always like, “Slow down. Stop talking.”
I don’t know if you pay attention to the reaction to your projects online…
I try not to. Sometimes I get roped in, but yeah.
Has there been any response from Montanans? Do you care? Are you like, “Did I nail it”?
I saw a comment that someone posted on a post that either I or someone else had made that was complimentary of the accent from someone who was from Montana. And so I was like, “That was a nice kind of approval.” But it’s hard because it’s a slippery slope to go down. And the only thing I’m in control of is just like, I did my best, and so I’m hoping that it lands.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the director of all these episodes, at least for season one, Christina Voros, is also the DP. Is that correct?
Yeah. Yeah.
That is super rare for television. It’s also not a traditional television show in the sense that yes, there’s a lot of dialogue, but there’s a lot of intimate dialogue, especially in your storyline with your and Beau’s character. Did it feel like you were making more of a movie? Was there rehearsal time?
We didn’t have heaps of rehearsal on it. One thing I’d also just want to say to kind of sing the praises of Christina is that not only was she our director and our DP, but we shot with like five cameras on this show. So, we were doing like almost every setup, some of them you couldn’t use all five, but almost every setup we were shooting with five cameras. So if you ask any DP what it is like to light for five cameras, they’ll tell you it is no small feat. And so I mean, Christina is really a special, special artist and a special talent. She’s a real natural leader, which you’d think would be a prerequisite for being a director, but it’s not always. And I just love working with her. Again, she’s worked with Taylor a lot, and Taylor really lets the writing speak for itself, and he really trusts the actors that he casts. We had a bit of rehearsal early on, but kind of after the first few scenes, once we got those under our belt, you figure out what felt right. And you have a lot of cameras, but you don’t do many takes. If you need one, you never feel rushed. It always feels like, “Let’s kind of trust these first instincts, let’s try and capture them.” You feel pretty safe because you’re also, almost every setup you do, you’re also cross-shooting. So, you know we’re all in it together. We’re all getting our coverage done right now. And I think this ensemble, the chemistry of this ensemble, lends itself to that kind of spontaneity and that kind of following those impulses at first. And yeah, it’s not something you necessarily want to overcook, but I do remember feeling very grateful early on that Christina, a lot of the notes she gave us, she would say like, “Slow down, take your time. Let the pauses breathe. If I need to, I can always cut them out and tighten things in the edit, but you don’t have to self-edit. You don’t have to do that for me.”
Originally, it wasn’t supposed to be one season broken into two. When you were shooting season one, had you already read the scripts for season two? Did you know where your character’s arc is going?
Not at all. I didn’t. There was a lot of talking about, “I think we’ve already got a season two. I think we’re going to go do a season two,” but I’m very much like, “Until I have it in writing, I’m here, we’re doing the job that we have writing, I got enough on my plate right now to get through.” So, I wasn’t even thinking about season two when we were shooting season one. Obviously, we’re filming it, you get to work with this writing, we’re in one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been in the world, each day waking up going, “I hope we do nine seasons of this show.” But I think hope and expectation are two very different things in this business, and I think it’s important to keep a distinction between the two. And so I had my cup runeth over with hope going into this, but I really try to check expectations at the door. I’ve done jobs where people tell you, “Get ready.” And even when you do it, and even when I think it’s amazing, if it doesn’t quite hit. So, I feel like aggregating the success of a job based on what you gave to it, rather than based on what you got out of it, is a much more sustainable way to stay in this line of work. I think we started filming, we only had the first three episodes of season one, and then they kind of came in as we were shooting, and someone was smiling down on us, because we rapped in Montana, and then two days later, the snow hit. That happened these last two seasons. I mean, we didn’t start getting episodes for season two until I think early 2025.
Without giving anything away, how would you describe season two to anyone who was a big fan of season one?
Oh, man. I mean, it digs a lot. It continues on this journey of digging and giving space to these characters to explore this journey of grieving that they’re on in all the facets that it has to offer. And a big part of that grief is healing and is rebirth and renewal. And I think you start to see much more of that in season two.
And also, as you are a New Yorker, I have to ask, is it nicer to New York City than the first season was?
That’s a good question. Yeah, I’m pretty sure it is. I think it is. I’m trying to remember if…Yeah, I think so.
Oh, no more pot shots. O.K., that’s nice.
No, it is much nicer to New York this season. Yes.
Good, because that would’ve been my exact note, and I don’t even live there. But also, going back to the first season, when you think about that now, what’s the one scene that you just immediately remember shooting?
There’s a scene that Beau [Garrett] and I have on a riverbank in episode four, and it’s a beautifully written scene, beautifully drawn scene. It was [around] September 20th, and we weren’t supposed to shoot it until November 1st. It was way later on the call sheet. And September 19th, and we got a call from production saying, “Hey, the wind forecast. It’s being dangerous. We can’t really shoot anything except there’s one location we have that’s just nestled in this little riverbank, that’s the only place we are safe to film tomorrow. And that’s the scene with you and Beau talking. Are you guys good to shoot that tomorrow? Do you know the lines?” It was a real last-minute thing that got sprung on us. And I had less work than Beau did that season, and so I came pretty prepped, and I just said, “Hey, if Beau’s up for it, I’m up for it.” I wanted to make sure that we were both good to go, and they were like, “Yeah, she’s ready.” So that also told me a lot about her as a scene partner, where it’s like, “Oh, we’re both good to go? O.K., cool. Let’s do it.” And that was one where we showed up, and you can see it’s f**king windy. It’s a windy scene, but it was a very meaningful experience shooting that, just because we didn’t have time to overthink anything. We’re kind of like, “Look, we’re probably going to f**k up. We’re probably going to forget our lines.” So, showing up, being able to do that, the way Christina shot it, everything just felt very, really fun and really alive.
And there was also a scene with Michelle from that episode where she’s in the river, and I’m talking to her from the riverbank, and I remember rehearsing that scene, and I think it was my first scene just with Michelle [Pfeiffer] and me. And as much as I try to be like, “[She’s] just another actor, we’re both in the game together.” I’m like, “It’s Michelle.” Also, she has a lot of heavy lifting in that scene, and I wanted to be there for her, be there to pass the ball. And so as I was rehearsing it and preparing, it was always a very intimate, quiet scene to me. And then I showed up, and of course I’m like, “Oh yeah, she’s like 50 feet away from me and running water, and I’m on a f**king riverbank. Oh no, this is not this kind of whispered moment.” And it was one of those things where you show up, and everything is telling me you just got to let go of all the prep you did and all the clever ideas you had. Like, here’s this person who needs a lot of help. And I just got to make sure that she can hear what I’m saying. I remember showing up that day, it probably shot in October, November, and I was like, “She’s not going to stand in a river. We’ll probably do Michelle’s coverage, and then we’ll put her stunt double in, and Michelle will read off-camera lines or whatever.” And dude, Michelle was in that river the whole scene, just like her coverage, my coverage, wide shots, closeups, my closeup, everything. It didn’t even cross her mind not to bring it every take. I cannot say enough good things about it. I just think she’s an amazing person to work with. And then seeing the show, I’m just like, dude, she just rips my heart out in this show. She’s so wonderful.
Also, to clarify, she was wearing some sort of rubber pants.
Oh yeah, yeah. She had thermals on. Oh my God, she wasn’t in the cold. She wasn’t Daniel Day-Lewis. It wasn’t “The Revenant” out there on “The Madison.” Yeah, she had her thermals on.
I’m about to head to Cannes…
Amazing.
And you’re in London, not in the south of France, where you are supposed to be shooting “The White Lotus” season four.
Yes.
This is rare for “The White Lotus” because usually, the cast is stuck wherever they’re shooting it the entire time. Have you wrapped or not shot yet, or is there a break? What’s going on?
I might see you at the Nice Airport. I think we’re going to travel on the same day. [Laughs] So, I’m getting ready to head out next week to get cracking.
So you have not shot anything yet?
No, I have not.
I know you can’t give anything away, but Mike famously gives all the scripts to everyone for all the seasons. Can you give a word or reaction to just reading the script?
It’s phenomenal. Yeah, it’s great. I’m so excited. I’m very excited for people to see it, and I’m excited to get to work on it and go play in this sandbox. I feel very, very grateful to be able to crack open a Taylor Sheridan script and then go crack open a Mike White script. Yeah, it’s not lost on me that it’s been a very fortunate year, so I’m super grateful.
Congratulations on all this. Have a great time in South France.
Thank you.
And also, really quickly, when are you guys shooting “The Madison” season three? Do they know yet?
I think it’s going to be the top of ’27, I think.
Oh, O.K.
Yeah, because I think they’re kind of timing it with the rollout of when they drop season two and then kind of…but again, I’m that guy who’s like, “Until they tell me I’m…” So, I’m just stoked we’re going to come back for season three.
“The Madison” is available on Paramount+
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