He may not use this particular word to describe it, but if you were Ludwig Göransson it’s hard not to reflect back on the last 12 months as “incredible.” The Swedish-born composer, songwriter and music producer has seen almost a decade of artistic collaborations earn global recognition on both the big screen and on your Spotify play list.
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On Sunday evening, Göransson won three Grammys for Record of the Year and Song of the Year for Childish Gambino’s “This Is America” and Best Score Soundtrack for Visual Media for “Black Panther.” On Sunday, Feb. 24, Göransson could win his first Academy Award in the Original Score category for Ryan Coogler‘s Best Picture nominee.
Göransson was kind enough to jump on the phone Monday afternoon to discuss his whirlwind few weeks and inspiration for his iconic “Black Panther” score.
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The Playlist: How are you holding up after the Grammys last night?
Ludwig Göransson: Oh my god, it was I mean it felt surreal. I can’t really believe that it happened, that we got these kind of awards. I still can’t really believe that it happened.
Did you know that Childish wasn’t going to the there and that you were going to have to accept the award if he wasn’t?
I mean I think I didn’t know what was going to happen. I had no idea. We hadn’t really talked about it. I was surprised that we had gotten all of these. I don’t think we felt we were going to win anything, but then I don’t know where Donald was. He was not there.
You also won for the soundtrack for “Black Panther.” What has this whole experience been like with the Oscar nomination and now a Grammy win for your work on this movie?
I’m just extremely grateful because I’ve been working with Ryan Coogler and Donald Glover for 10 years now. Just to be able to celebrate a moment with both of these incredible collaborators and artists, I don’t know, I’m just so happy.
I know you had worked with Ryan previously but was there anything in regards to the score for “Black Panther” that was a priority for him?
Absolutely. The number one thing that we wanted to evoke with this goal was we wanted to have the soul of the music and the score to be based in traditional African music.
How did you start that process?
When I was 20 studying music in Stockholm, I moved to Gambia for a month and I studied the music of four different tribes. [I learned] just how complex African rhythms and music language are. Cut to 13 years later, I realized that I needed to go back to the continent to have a chance at giving Ryan the score the scrips needed. I spent a few weeks trying to decide where in Africa to go and something just pulled me back to West Africa. It also helped that I had a connection to a major Senegalese artist whose name is Baaba Maal. He’s like a really famous African artist. [We had a phone converssation] and he offered me and my girlfriend now wife to come and join him on a festival tour in Senegal. Based on this phone call, we booked two tickets to Dakar without any real plan or expectation of what would happen on the other side of the world. It was a crazy adventure. We arrived in the car and there’s a man and a driver waiting for us. They drove us two hours to a remote village where we stayed the night, and in the morning, accompanied by a third man, he was the retired police chief, we set out to meet Baaba Maal. We drive the entire day through hundreds of villages, dirt road – sometimes there are no roads – and this is our first real glimpse of Senegalese life. 13 hours of driving later, we finally arrived at a hotel, we thought that was the final destination, but we realized that there was the festival was even further away. We check in, we got some dinner, and around 11pm, we start wondering, “We missed the concert, or is it still happening?” Our hosts they were like, “We’re fine, you’re fine. We’ve got to go the concert in a while.” After two hours, we’re still in the car, it’s pitch black outside. You can’t see a single light or a sign of life. There isn’t even phone reception, it’s one in the morning. My girlfriend’s like, “Did you really talk to Baaba Maal?” At this point we’ve been traveling for like 48 hours and we’re starting to feel a little anxious and we also understanding that in Africa you can’t really ask how far away the village is or when dinner is or when the concert was because the answer always is “It’s very close.” Eventually, we did pull up to a house and we were taken to Baaba Maal. He was sitting in a room surrounded by people who were singing praises to him, bringing him food and gifts, asking his opinion on specific challenges the village was facing. People was giving him land with hope that it would contribute to the welfare of the village. This would happen before every performance. He has an electrifying presence. He invited us to stay with him, eat with him. We gathered around a large platter on the floor eating spiced goat and rice with our hands. That was one of the most delicious meals we’ve ever had. After a while, we got back in our car and we start driving through throngs of people who waited near and walked days in the finest clothing to see Baaba Maal perform. Finally, at 3 am, a chord is played and Baaba Maal takes the stage. He sings kind of sermon, a musical sermon and I’m so transfixed. I never heard anything like that before. Eventually the band kicks in with a kind of West African pulsating music. Nobody could resist, and the people went crazy. We saw people rushing to the stage, shake his hand and worship him when he was singing. I had never seen anything like that before. That’s a very important cultural ritual that is done in a very public way. People are proud to show support for him. People walk up there, give him money, serenading him. I think from that moment, being there at that place, hearing Baaba Maal singing about female genital mutilation and arranged child marriage, singing about how the elders need to let go of these practices that are harming the future. Baaba Maal, he’s a kind of a prophet too his people. From that moment we were there, I knew that we were exactly where we needed to be.
Had Ryan begun shooting at this point?
No, no, no. I had just read the script I think. I hadn’t seen any pictures. I hadn’t seen anything. I had just read the script. I had been working with Ryan for so long. It’s such a special thing when you work on a movie, you really have time to experiment and put effort and do research and learn something about another musical language. That’s the only reason why I was able to do this score.
Was there anything that someone who doesn’t know a lot about music composition or instruments beyond the obvious, “Oh it’s a guitar, it’s a drum,” that you were able to work into the score that you think is notable?
Yeah, I think the biggest sound of the score came from the African talking drum. I’m so fascinated by that instrument. It’s like an instrument you can you strap on your shoulder, you play on it and you squeeze your arms. The more you squeeze it, the more the drum pitches up. You can play different pitches with it. It’s like a voice. It sounds almost like a voice then you can depending on what rhythms you hit the drum with, you basically say words. You can send messages. It’s like the first type of telephone communication device. I’ve worked with one of Baaba Maal’s talking drum players and I had never heard anyone play talking drum like that before. After we met up in the studio, and I was like, “How would you say T’challa’s name on the drum?” He made this rhythm and that I was like, T’challa, T’challa. I was like, “Oh that’s incredible. What if we have six talking drum players, and they play together and play this rhythm together?” That became one of T’challa’s themes. It kind of echoes throughout the whole score anytime T’challa comes into the picture, it’s always accompanied by these talking drums.
Beyond your score, there are a number of amazing songs in the film including Kendrick Lamar’s nominated song “All the Stars.” Did you work with him in terms of themes and melodies or did he work completely separately from what you were doing?
I remember he’d come in. Ryan showed him a little quip from the movie. I think there was a specific scene that we wanted him to do something with and Kendrick left the meeting, I think he was very tired because the next time Ryan met up with him, he had not just done one song, he had done like a whole album. The track that I got the chance to work with him on was a track called “Off” which is on the soundtrack. We actually used that track for one of the car chase scenes.
This movie has had such a long journey. Just about a year ago people were seeing it for the first time and when it hit theaters the reaction was more than I think anyone involved ever thought it would be. Can you talk about what it meant for you? To know that so many people were moved by your music that they will always think of this experience when they hear it?
I mean I feel so I mean I’m so grateful to be a part of this movie that I think is one of the most unique and important movies of all time, and just to see how it resonated in the entire world, not just in the states, but in every part of the world. I talked to the musicians that were playing on the score playing these incredible instruments, the traditional African instruments they haven’t really heard in a global movie, on a global level like that and they were sharing their musical ancestry with us. Having that on a big screen performing the whole world and talking to the musicians afterward telling me how proud they were to hear their music being represented in that way, I think that was the most gratifying part for me.
That’s awesome. My last question, where are you going to put your two Grammys?
My three Grammy’s?
Oh, your three I’m sorry. [Laughs.] Where are you putting your three Grammys?
I’m building a new studio, it’s going to be done in about two months. I need to find a good spot in my new studio.
“Black Panther” the film and the soundtrack is available on all streaming and downloadable services.