The Playlist: Out of any “Traitors” season I am aware of, the first six episodes had perhaps the most intense gameplay that the franchise has ever seen. Did you get worried at all that it was getting too intense while you were making it, or were you like, “This is good TV, we’ve got enough challenges and twists along the way to keep it up”?
Mike Cotton: Do you know what? I think this season was really, really interesting. The turret was chaotic, maybe because when Boston Rob came in because they rejected him, and obviously he went head-to-head with Bob the Drag Queen, and it was chaotic, but that’s also what makes it thrilling to watch the Traitors. We walk on a knife-edge because the success of the show relies on the Traitor’s identity being kept a secret. If suddenly everyone’s identity were revealed, it would entirely blow up the game. So, we watch those round tables and Sam and I watched the moment when Boston Rob went head to head with Bob the Drag Queen, and I could have probably been sick at my desk because I didn’t know what was going to happen because they went at each other so hard, but they played within the rules. I always think that when something’s that terrifying, when my heart is in my mouth, that means that it’s really good TV. I think we thought “Yes, we were terrified” the whole time we were making the show because the whole game relies on secrecy, but that’s also what makes it gripping as well at the same time.
Sam Rees-Jones: And when we come back from Scotland, we definitely age a few years within the shoot because we are watching it like the viewers are watching it as well. So, it is terrifying to watch, but it is so thrilling as well. And the story of the Traitors this year was so compelling. It wasn’t just a case of them joining up and going, “Who are we going to murder tonight?” There was so much going on within the turret, and it was chaotic. Yes, it was messy at times, but there was this whole different storyline that was interwoven within the overall story of Traitor versus Faithful, which was happening at the same time, which was complex but compelling to watch.
The Playlist: You have not had anyone blow up the game and I know that there are incentives for them not to do it, but do you guys have a backup plan if that ever happens? Is that something every season you have, “O.K., this is the DEFCON one emergency plan” to keep production going?
Mike Cotton: Yes, we do. I’m not to tell you it, but yes, we do. Absolutely. We have different plans and different strategies, but obviously, once the Traitors sign an oath and a set of rules with us, they can, of course, accuse another Traitor of being a Traitor at the round table from the perspective of being Faithful themselves. What they can’t do is stand up and go, “I’m a Traitor and so is Gregory, and so is Sam.” They’re fundamentally not allowed to do that. If they did do that, yes, we have got plans in place. Remember this is a show that’s also made in other countries as well, and in another country someone has stood up before and when they were revealed as being a traitor and said, “So is Gregory too,” but in that country, Gregory didn’t get banished in the next episode because he just said, “Mike said that because he’s got sour grapes.” Well, I managed to turn it around because there’s still no concrete evidence. It’s always one person’s word against another. So, that hasn’t ever happened for us, but we do have plans in place if that were ever to.
Sam Rees-Jones: We have plans for everything because we don’t produce, we are very hands-off as producers, and like Mike said, we give them the castle, we give them a rule book. We don’t control what they do, so the pre-production is just so important, and we have laser-focused precision, and we think of every eventuality because we need to, because any eventuality can happen in the castle when they enter.
Mike Cotton: I don’t think anyone ever believes us, and we say this, but we have what we call our season blockout at the start of the season. We are like, “Right, this is what’s going to happen in episode one. This is the twist that will happen in this episode or in episode X. They will be the murder in the chapel where they’ll line up, and they’ll say they’re finding words, and one person will have a face-to-face mode to face.” We plan that out in advance, and we stick to that. I think people might think that we’re just there and be like, “Oh, tomorrow let’s just throw in that.” And it is generally not like that, but because we plan it like that, we interrogate every single possible angle of what happened.
Sam Rees-Jones: We have sleepless nights thinking about what if this happens or what if that happens?
The Playlist: This season in particular, was there any one moment you remember that surprised you the most that even you didn’t think would happen?
Sam Rees-Jones: So many, and like Mike said, we plan so many twists, and we do plan these twists, but sometimes the most shocking twists come from what the players do themselves. We couldn’t believe it when Boston Rob in episode four turned on Bob the Drag Queen. Honestly, that episode was filmed in a day. They came back from the mission, and he just went to work, and we were blown away by the speed, and it just spiraled.
Mike Cotton: I was blown away when Britney changed her vote at the roundtable when there was the tie, and then she voted for Danielle. I didn’t think she was going to do that.
Sam Reese-Jones: Would never have even thought about scripting that moment. It just wouldn’t have felt believable. It happened, and our jaws dropped.
The Playlist: Viewers at home could not believe that the Faithfuls were not eliminating Boston Rob because how could he not be a Traitor? And if not, why would you want someone who is so good at scheming still in the game? Do you think that many of them did know and wanted to keep him around for that reason?
Mike Cotton: If they did think that, they didn’t tell us that. We have our confessional interviews with them where they tell us everything, and they didn’t say that. I think Rob is an amazing game player. He is a master strategist and very good at manipulating people and being very convincing with it. It’s so easy to watch the show knowing someone is a Traitor and to go, “The Faithfuls are so stupid, why can’t they work it out?” It’s so obvious, but as a viewer you’ve got this privileged position of seeing that and knowing that when you don’t actually know it, it’s so much harder because you build relationships with these people, you hang out with ’em, they spend all day together with them, and it is much harder than you think. I mean, there are lots of voices. Everyone has a different theory that can end up confusing things, and they start to second-guess themselves. “Is Rob a Traitor? Oh, it’s too obvious that Rob’s a Traitor.” “Of course they wouldn’t, it’s too obvious for him to be a Traitor, so it can’t be him.”
The Playlist: I’m sure you’ve heard viewers say that the challenges don’t mean anything, and it felt like you took that criticism seriously. There was even a “Fear Factor”-esque challenge that was utterly horrifying. Did you ever think that maybe you’d crossed a line, how far you went with that one?
Sam Reese-Jones: The bug’s mission? I mean, listen, with that bug’s mission, I only zone in on the core simple element of holding your hands together to earn a shield, and are you willing to endure something to get a shield? The beauty of our missions, I would say, is we design ’em in a way that if you don’t want to do something, you don’t have to do it. It’s up to the players how they want to respond to that. Did the Housewives want to keep on rowing or get off on a pontoon? Well, they wanted to get off, and that was ultimately Dorinda’s demise. You know, Chrishelle and Dolores separated their hands before anything happened within that mission. So, we always want those missions to be designed in a way that you can approach them how you want to approach them.
Mike Cotton: And I think we, but there are two things, those missions, it’s quite interesting. Yes, we’ve seen people’s comments on the missions, which is why we evolve them each year. I think our starting point for the missions is that everyone in the show is a Faithful, even the Traitors are saying that they’re Faithful, and the missions are actually a really good opportunity for them to also come together and trying to achieve something as a group and build up that prize fund. And we talk about lots of psychological elements within the show. One of the things that works for us really well psychologically is that when they come together and have a mission and they achieve something and they raise $20,000 for the prize fund, whether that $20,000 means and lots of them or not, they’ve achieved something as a group so that when they get back to the castle and they have to, the treachery, the castle feels all the greater, we’ve just done this thing together, had a great time, and now we’re turning on each other around table. We’ve done this thing together, we’ve just assembled all these things on the top of a hill. We’ve had a good high-five moment, and now we’re all having to turn on each other. The missions have a great purpose with us for that, and I think what we tried to do this year is amp up the shields because it’s also given people a chance to save and protect themselves, and that’s something we’re constantly evolving in pushing.
Sam Reese-Jones: Yeah, and I do think I felt there were more moments that really bled into the story this year. Carolyn’s behavior and the chess mission were what ultimately turned Dylan onto her. Danielle behaved quite erratically in the mission with the riddles and the urns, so there were moments that, without those missions, the overall story of the season would’ve been completely different.
The Playlist: I don’t know what you called the mission, but the one where they had to pick the doors to go through each. It wasn’t that hard, and they seemed to be quite dumb at it. Were you even surprised at that?
Mike Cotton: Well, we were surprised that they didn’t get through. We obviously test all the missions a lot, and they also did get very unlucky. That was an unusual mission for us because we were also at the mercy of the Scottish weather. If you notice there were like four seasons in one day, one second it was raining, one second it was sunny, which is the choice of being in the highlands. I think they got unlucky, but we also were surprised that we didn’t get one of them all the way through.
The Playlist: I just have a couple of follow-up questions for you. First off, one of the things that I sort of heard consistently from all the competitors this year is that there should be penalties against the Faithfuls for not getting out Traitors as the show goes on. I know you don’t want to screw up the general gameplay but is that something you’ve considered incorporating?
Sam Rees-Jones: I mean, what I would say is we watch everyone’s responses to the season with a fine-tooth comb, and we talk about everything as well. Nothing’s off the table with “The Traitors.” The most important thing, there’s a really brilliant format at the center of it, which we are so passionate about. We love the format, so we would never do anything to jeopardize the overall format, but absolutely, we discuss everything.
The Playlist: That’s a good answer. You are going to be working soon on the announced celebrity UK version of “The Traitors.” I’m assuming it’s your production team?
Mike Cotton: I am Sam, you are?
Sam Rees-Jones: Yes, but I’m both, yes.
The Playlist: I guess my question is, having worked on a celebrity version for the U.S. are there lessons you’ve learned from that incarnation that you will take with you to work on the UK one, as opposed to doing a traditional UK season?
Mike Cotton: Oh God, that’s a really good question. Yes and no. I think the answer to that, I think it is quite tricky. Without giving away details of the celebrity season, it is going to be slightly different, I would say to the U.S. celebrity version. I think one of the really interesting things that Sam touched on earlier is the established relationships that cast members have. If you watch the British version of “The Traitors,” none of the cast know each other. They all come in. Some of ’em have lied about who they are or hid that their son or their sisters are in the show as well. And what we’ve learned to do more in the U.S version is to embrace the fact that people’s preconceived notions about one another, and embrace the different relationships that they have. And that’s 100% a learning that we are taking through for that.
The Playlist: The show is immensely popular on both sides of the Atlantic. Are there any celebrity fans of the show you didn’t expect?
Sam Rees-Jones: I’m trying to pinpoint, but listen, there have been a few times with this little show that we created. We are constantly shocked when people talk about our show. It was Ben Stiller and the cast of “Severance.”
Mike Cotton: The “Severance “cast was talking about “The Traitors.”
Sam Rees-Jones: And we were blown away by that.
Mike Cotton: We were like, “That’s amazing.”
Sam Rees-Jones: Yeah, it does shock us. We go away to the highlands of Scotland, put on a mad murder mystery, love making it, love people watching it, and it does blow us away when, most importantly, the audience reactions and people who talk about it.
Mike Cotton: I think when we made season one, we thought everyone was going to think we’re going absolutely mad. We had Alan there with these fantastic outfits with a cape, and he had these purple leather, well,l vegan leather gloves on, and with stalking around the castle with these people following him in green cloaks. And we thought, “Everyone’s going to think we’re going absolutely mad. Is anyone going to like this? Is anyone going to watch it?” So, we learned a lot in season one. To do season two, and then win an Emmy, was absolutely mind-blowing and an absolute honor for us. We love the show so much, and that’s what we always hope that that sort of comes through in how we make it
Sam Rees-Jones: And having those cultural moments, and hopefully it feels like water cooler moments as well, where people want to dissect it with their friends or colleagues or family, feels really powerful. We’ve made a lot of television programs. It’s very rare to have that. It’s thrilling when you do see people engage in that way.
“The Traitors” is available on Peacock.
