“Normal”: Bob Odenkirk & Derek Kolstad On Building A Genre-Swerving Action Oddity Independently, ‘John Wick’ Exits, & ‘The Room’ Remake [The Discourse Podcast]

Bob Odenkirk playing a small-town interim sheriff squaring off against the Yakuza is not a sentence that should make sense, let alone sell a movie. It sounds like a dare, or the kind of idea you giggle at before moving on. And yet, “Normal” takes that slightly absurd premise and treats it with just enough sincerity, grit, and tonal whiplash to make you lean in instead of check out (read our review).

The film, starring Bob Odenkirk (“Better Call Saul,” “Nobody”) and written by Derek Kolstad— the screenwriting architect behind all the “John Wick” films— follows a small-town sheriff named Ulysses who finds himself pulled into a spiraling situation involving organized crime, buried history, and a small, quiet town that’s about to get a lot louder.

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It works because “Normal” doesn’t behave like a single movie. It slyly shapeshifts. A dry, slightly offbeat character piece suddenly turns tense and violent, then veers into dark comedy, a thriller, and back again. The movie wants you to feel those shifts, to adjust in real time, preferably with a crowd that’s hooting and hollering right alongside you.

As Odenkirk put it, the film is “sort of like five movies in one,” with each tonal pivot landing differently depending on who in the room catches it first.

On this episode of The Discourse, Odenkirk and Kolstad dig into how a movie like this comes together, and why the foundation has nothing to do with action spectacle.

“If you set out to make an action movie, you’re going to fail,” Kolstad explained. “But if you set out to make a good movie with a good character and it’s going to have action, then you’re doing it right.”

That philosophy defines Bob’s character, Ulysses. He’s not built like Kolstad’s other heroes. He’s not charging headfirst into danger or looking for a fight. If anything, he’s desperately trying to avoid it and a lot of dark thoughts.

Kolstad summed it up with a simple contrast. “If Hutch from ‘Nobody’ sees a burning building, he runs in. Ulysses stands there for a while. Maybe too long. And only steps in when he absolutely has to.”

That hesitation is what makes the character work, and it’s also why Odenkirk was drawn to him.

“He’s more like me than anyone I’ve played,” Odenkirk said. “He’s older. You know, Saul Goodman, I played for so many years, was like 25 years younger than me. That was not easy to do. And Hutch in ‘Nobody,’ he’s also younger than me. And he’s angrier than I, which is not easy to be, but he is. And [Ulysses] is more pitched right where I am.”

Of course, when the movie does go big, it commits. Director Ben Wheatley (“Free Fire”) pushed for as much practical work as possible, from the film’s punishing fight scenes to a looming snowstorm that turns the environment itself into a threat – and was sort of the reason for the push away from CGI in the first place.

“Ben had a lot to do with that choice,” Odenkirk said. “There’s a big snowstorm in this movie. It’s almost another character of the film, this snowstorm that is coming and then hits the town and does a lot of damage and makes everyone more isolated, makes the whole action more dangerous, stressful, and isolated. And doing a snowstorm on screen is not easy. But Ben Wheatley was the one who said, I don’t want to CGI this stuff. I don’t want to CGI the fighting. I want it to be as practical, which is to say, as in front of us as we can make it.”

That philosophy bleeds into every hit, every stumble, every moment where it looks like it actually hurts, because it probably did.

Even the dialogue isn’t locked in place. Odenkirk described an ongoing process of reshaping lines during production, sometimes right up to the moment of the take.

“I kind of beat the crap out of the dialogue,” he admitted. “Right up to shooting, even when we’re shooting, I go, ‘Could we try this line here?’ Derek is going to be thinking about the whole plot, the whole journey.”

And while this isn’t a sequel or a franchise extension, it’s not hard to see the potential. Both Odenkirk and Kolstad hinted at revisiting Ulysses in future installments.

“You look at the best Westerns, the cowboy always rides off to the sunset, but you know, he’s going to do the same thing in the next town that he did in the last town,” Kolstad said. “We’ve talked through any number of iterations about where this franchise could go, but we love the character, and we love this team, and we’ll see how it does.”

For now, though, “Normal” stands as something a little unusual. A mid-budget swing that prioritizes character and chaos over clean genre lines. A film that occasionally stumbles, but never feels boring. And a collaboration that seems far more interested in exploring than repeating.

That creative freedom is something Kolstad clearly values, especially after a franchise like “John Wick,” which he never had full control over and is no longer involved with. When asked if he consults on the future of the franchise or if he passed the torch completely, Kolstad didn’t mince words about why he really isn’t writing the future installments anymore.

“Passing the torch is a very kind way of being ‘studio-ed out’ of your own franchise,” he said. “But ‘John Wick’ gave me the career I’d always hoped for. I look at the writers, the John Wick team, and I wish them nothing but the best and nothing but love, because it’s my grandfather’s name [Wick]. But what I love about that is that it still has my shadow on it. And what’s been fun about ‘Normal’ is we did it independently, and this is ours. Everything on screen that you love was us. And the stuff that isn’t working, that’s us too.”

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Odenkirk, meanwhile, is still holding out hope for one of his more bizarre side projects to see the light of day: his remake of “The Room,” shot over 24 hours.

“I wish I could see it,” Bob said, admitting he knows little about the status of the film. “My theory on ‘The Room’ is this: It’s famously known as one of the worst films ever made. But the reason it’s so fun to watch is you recognize what he’s trying to do, what he wants you to feel. And so what I tried to do in remaking it was to play it as best I could and to follow that concept that the writer wanted you to believe in. So yeah, I hope [we see it].”

“Normal” hits theaters nationwide on April 17th. Listen to the full conversation with Bob Odenkirk and Derek Kolstad via the YouTube embed below or via The Playlist Podcast Network.

The Discourse is part of The Playlist Podcast Network, which includes Deep Focus, Bingeworthy, and more. We can be heard on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Soundcloud, and most places where podcasts are found. You can stream the podcast via the embed within the article. Be sure to subscribe and drop us a comment or a rating, as we greatly appreciate it. Thank you for listening.

Mike DeAngelo

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