I haven’t had a chance to read the original novella. How different is the final script you wrote compared to the novel itself?
It’s different. The other day, the author described them as two very different things, and I think that’s totally true. I’ve changed it from the 1970s to the present day. The ending is totally different. The time span is different. The relationship between Colin and Ray in the book is almost entirely static. Colin never pushes up against the boundaries of what it means to be a submissive, whereas I was more interested in asking, “At what point does Colin Grove get frustrated with his role and push up against it”? And I think that obviously the gay bike gang, that’s a mainstay. The nature of the dom-sub relationship in its skeleton is the mainstay. And actually, the thing that I was most keen to transfer was the tone. The book, I think, is harsher, but it’ll jump between making you laugh and making you outraged, and then making you pity Colin or making you root for Ray. And I think that mobility in tone was really interesting to me, and I wanted to try and put that into a film.
You had to do your own research on bike gangs in the UK and the sort of dom-sub power dynamic in relationships. Was this something that you knew about beforehand, or was it something you really had to dive into?
I’ve definitely been interested in transgressive sex predating my reading the book. And my first short film was about a pair of brothers who go to a glory hole. And it has been a kind of mainstay of my films, but specifically, strict dom-sub relationships? I didn’t know anything. And I try to make clear that the bike gang, who we got to be in the film, aren’t all in strict dom-sub relationships. The GBMC, which is the bike club, is sort of not a sex-based group. But that said, lots of them had experience in kink and in leather and in dom-sub stuff. And I think the thing that surprised me the most was that went and spent a weekend with them riding around. And there’s a propensity with BDSM because of the way it’s portrayed in the media to assume that people are constantly playing the role and constantly being sexy, for want of a better term. And I remember I was someone’s pillion and we stopped off at a pub, and they all drank orange juice or tea, and there was a hilariously boring conversation. It was about how foxes were becoming more common in London Gardens. The sprawl of urban Fox. And I remember being like, that mundanity, the way that can sit alongside extremity, I thought was a really surprising thing to me. And so I definitely tried to put that into the script to have moments where, when Colin arrives back at Ray’s house for the first time and sees the bikers, they’re chatting about their mom making a bad bread pudding for Christmas. They’re not talking about fisting or whatever.
Considering some of the sex scenes, but were you surprised that…allowed is the wrong word…but were you told, “Don’t do this or this. It will hurt your commercial appeal.” Was there any pushback at all? Or was it, “No, go with your vision”?
Honestly, it was like, “Do your vision, go for it.” It really was. I mean, I guess the luxury of it still being a very small budget British film meant that we didn’t really have to try and placate the market. And there was a discussion about how we could avoid the film getting whatever that rating is in America, which means that it can only be shown in three cinemas. But actually, I think everyone who came on board, including A24, it had been a condition of me wanting to do the book was like, “I don’t want to do this book if it has to be a sanitized version. I’ve said this before, but I was very worried that if we did a prudish version of this story, it would seem like the filmmaking team was judging the kind of sex by being like, “O.K., we think this sex is too scandalous to put in front of audiences, and therefore you wouldn’t be able to understand the contradictions between brutality and tenderness.” And so the team at A24 was totally supportive. I think there were just moments, actually, when we were in the edit, where I was like, “Is the most explicit, scandalous shot here the right choice for the tone I’m trying to create in this moment?” And there was this extreme close-up of Ray’s behind with the Prince Albert coming out of it, and it was in the alley scene, the first blowjob scene, and it just always made people laugh in the screenings we were doing with execs. They’d laugh, and it’s a moment where you were meant to be holding your breath. So, it was me taking out stuff, which I thought was distracting.
After I saw it, I thought it spoke to queer audiences across the spectrum. And I thought straight women might have sympathy for Collin’s character. I did not expect all these straight male critics, whom I know, to arguably like the movie the most. Are you surprised by those reactions?
Am I surprised? Maybe not. I think that it’s sort of difficult for me, a little bit, to answer that question because I’ve got a twin brother who’s straight, right? And he’s the person I’m probably closest to. And so I would still be surprised if my local football team decided this was the film they wanted to go and watch on a Saturday night, and they all went together. I’d be surprised if they went, but I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they loved it, because I think that there’s enough humor in there for it, and it was kind of why I wanted there to be that humor. I think humor kind of gives people an excuse not to feel freaked out by something. To be able to, for a moment, be like, “O.K., the tension has popped,” Or “O.K., I can get on board with the disgust of this,” maybe as they see it, because it’s funny. And so I feel like if this film were much more severe or sincere in its execution, then I’d be really surprised that, particularly straight men, I guess, were not uncomfortable. But as it stands, I’m not really.
No, I get it. Listen, I’m going to let you go, because I actually also have to go, but I know you’re going to the Governor’s Awards, right?
Yes, are you going to be there?
No, I’m not going to be there. But you will have a blast. Plus, I also already know of a secret performance that is going to be worth it. It won’t just be a dinner.
Yeah, man. No, I’m f**king excited. It feels totally mad, but yeah, crazy.
And you’re not here next weekend, right? Are you gone?
Gone on Wednesday, sadly.
No, that’s okay. There’s the other night I told you about, the number one, [redacted]. It’s the last one of the year, but you’ll be gone.
I’ll be back in January.
Good, your tonsils will be healed by then.
____
“Pillion” opens in limited release on Feb. 6, but if you are a guild, BAFTA, or AMPAS member, do whatever you can to see it.
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Editor-at-Large Gregory Ellwood is one of Hollywood's most respected awards journalists, covering the Oscars and Emmys beat with the access and institutional knowledge that comes from decades reporting at the center of the industry. Based in West Hollywood, he has written for the LA Times, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, HitFix, and Vox, among others.
