Like many Emmy nominees this year, Kieran Culkin is happy he was recognized by his peers in the Television Academy. He was also thrilled that a whopping five of his “Succession” co-stars also earned acting nominations. The show’s 18 nominations overall were “spectacular”, but during a conversation earlier this month he admitted, “There’s a couple of people that I can’t help but be like, ‘Oh, man. Where’s J.’s nomination? Where’s Arian’s nomination? Alan Ruck too.”
READ MORE: Jeremy Strong on the emotional weight of “Succession’s” Kendall Roy [Interview]
The “This Is Our Youth” star adds, “Part of me thought, “O.K., Brian [Cox] is probably going to get a nomination. Then we get this abundance of nominations, and I’m like, ‘Oh, that’s amazing. Okay, where’s J.’s?'”
J. Smith-Cameron, Alan Ruck and Arian Moyad will have to hope season three lets them crack the Emmy field next year, but for Culkin, his follow up accolade to last year’s Golden Globe nod was more than deserved. As Roman Roy, Culkin has helped craft one of those most unique characters on television. A one-percenter who often seems more like that younger sibling who drove you crazy than the potential CEO of a major media corporation. A character whose affection for his siblings often leaks through an obnoxious facade and whose bluster might be more bark than bite.
Culkin recently jumped on the phone to discuss how the stay-at-home orders have allowed him some unexpected quality time with his baby daughter, insight into how the cast has helped craft each character and, most urgently, when “Succession” might actually return to production.
This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
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The Playlist: I’ve talked to almost everyone in the cast, I’ve talked to Shiv in Australia, and from what I gather you guys still don’t know when you’re coming back for season three, do you?
Kiernan Culkin: No, there’s always an idea. I think at one point it was supposed to be August or something, or September and then it was pushed to October. The next call was that they’re sticking with October. They’re being hopeful, but we just don’t know. It’s on my schedule, I’m doing air quotes. I’ll tell my wife and we’ll start making plans, but I have no idea if it’s going to happen.
There are so many other things going on in the world, but I’ve talked to so many Emmy contenders and Emmy nominees since April and, at first, I talked to people and they’d be like, “It’s just nice to have a break and not have to stress about finding a gig because there are no gigs, and just enjoy the time.” Now, I feel like the more people I talk to, they’re… I don’t want to say they’re frustrated, but there is an eagerness to…
They’re eager to get to work. Yeah.
Do you feel that way?
Definitely. I’m sure a lot of people are experiencing their own version of both because I haven’t really had a break since the lockdown happened because we just had a baby. The plan was to, basically, start shooting and find a bigger apartment because I’m in this tiny, 600 square foot, one-bedroom apartment with a baby that wasn’t sleeping, and we decided it wasn’t safe for us to start looking at places to live. So, we’ve been locked into this place and the baby wasn’t sleeping. It’s been, actually, quite difficult in that regard, to where I’m actually looking towards work as being a break. So, there’s my eagerness in that way. But I found this, at the same time, being home all the time and watching every single day, every little moment of my baby grow up for the last five months has been…there’s just nothing that I can compare that to. There’s no amount of work or joy or anything else that can compare to how amazing this experience has been, as hard as it is, and I don’t still don’t sleep. I think my average is somewhere between three to four hours a night for the last five months. So, I’m kind of losing it. There’s part of me that wants to go back to work because it’s fun, but also maybe I’ll get a night’s sleep.
Are you taking afternoon naps at least?
No. I’ve always been terrible at the nap. There was a period of time when I figured out how to do the nap, but now our baby sleeps and my wife goes to sleep early, but I don’t know how to do that. I can only go to sleep when my body is tired and sometimes that’s 4:00 AM and then I’m up at 6:00.
Oof.
But my wife lets me have a break in the morning. I get to sleep a little extra in the morning, which is nice. But, yeah.
Congratulations on the addition to your family. That is a silver lining outside of the lack of sleep.
It’s, like, really hard, but it’s been incredibly rewarding. And then that’s why when things like this happen when a nomination happens, it almost doesn’t feel like the real world. It’s like, “Oh, by the way, I know you’re living in a cave right now and life is intense and rewarding and amazing, but also in this pretend world that exists, as far as you know, on the internet, some nice stuff is happening.”
Right, and there’s going to be a virtual ceremony, and we say we’re going to send a camera crew to your place for the ceremony, but are we really? You really probably don’t know. Are they really going to show up?
I really don’t know. I was actually just going over an email right before this phone call, of like, “Would you pre-tape an acceptance speech just in case you win, or do you want to do it live? Are you willing to have a camera crew go into your house or they’ll send you equipment to set up yourself?” I’m like, “All of these options sound unpleasant, but whatever works.”
Whatever works.
Yeah.
Let’s talk about the season because I cannot remember the last time a show that was already really, really good took such a fantastic jump in its second season. Both Jeremy Strong and Brian Cox told me that Jeremy was really the only person who really knew where the arc of his character was going. Did Jesse give you any hints about where Roman would end up before the season started?
Not really. What frustrated me at the beginning of the show, when we started shooting. I’m a guy who comes from the theater who has pretty much-done film, and the thing that was always terrifying to me about doing television is not knowing the character arc. But pretty much halfway through the first season, I learned if you bend with them and put your faith in them and go with it, that it’s very rewarding. This is what’s interesting about doing this show. Firstly, knowing that I can trust the writers, I can trust the other actors, I can just trust the process. I only want to know as much as Roman knows. So, if I’m given an arc, if I’m told what’s going to happen, then it’s almost harder for me. It’s easier for me to just move with it. I feel like everybody, with the exception of Jeremy, has embraced this process and gone with it. Some of us find it rewarding. [Jeremy] has his own way of doing it. So, he asks. Brian sometimes asks and gets a little more information, and I have started doing the opposite. When I used to ask for it at the beginning, now I say, “Oh, maybe don’t tell me. I don’t want to know.”
What I find so intriguing about Roman is that out of all of Logan’s children, he’s appears to be the one that has had the most interesting life that we don’t know about. It’s easy to see him having adventures on crazy islands and drugged out of his mind more than some of the other characters. Maybe that’s a wrong assumption. Has Jesse told you anything about his backstory?
No. But what I will tell you is, that thing that you feel about Roman, about his past, I’m actually really happy that that’s how you think because I think that’s what Roman wants people to think. But I think his life is quite a bit more boring than that.
Interesting.
Not necessarily boring. He brags about his sex life a lot in the first episode. I think he says to Kendall, “I’m drowning in pussy.” He really wants to put that out there. He’s the guy who’s partying all the time on yachts and fucking and all this but he’s not, really. You see him how he is with sex. He goes into the bathroom with Eduard to talk a business deal and Eduard offers him coke. Roman holds onto the coke during the conversation, then just hands it back, and then keeps sipping his water or seltzer. He doesn’t really do drugs, but he’s not as crazy as all that. But when it comes to the process, I feel like I don’t ask about the backstory. I also don’t try to…
[Kieran pauses for a moment.]
Imagine?
No, I do imagine, but I don’t influence. What ends up happening, which is very bizarre and very rare is, I create my own background and then it sort of manifests itself in that way. The writers will then put things together that line up with what my imagination of what our family history was. There’s a lot of childhood dynamics that I’ve imagined Roman, Kendall, and Shiv, what their childhood was like. Sometimes we’ll talk about it and it seems that our ideas line up. Jeremy, Sarah [Snook] and I will have a similar idea as to what our childhood was like and when we see anything that’s written in the script, it sort of lines up with that too. It’s very bizarre, because it’s like, I don’t know, kismet, in a way.
All the kids in the family clearly want respect and adoration from their father, but it seems to me that Roman is the one that, when he’s with his dad, he almost becomes the most childlike. There’s that scene where he asks Roman to do the Turkey trip. You play him almost like a little kid talking to his dad. I don’t know if that was intentional or it’s just my seeing it in the performance, but do you agree with that?
I would agree with that, but you say “intentional”? I don’t really think anymore. I don’t really like intent. When I saw that conversation, it did sort of look like dad was telling Roman, “No, you can’t do that,” like a little kid. Like, “No, you got to eat your vegetables,” or something. It seemed like that too, but that wasn’t part of my plan. I guess that’s just how it happened. I think, whenever Roman and Logan are alone, I think that’s when Roman is the most on his toes, I think, the least fully himself. Or no, maybe he is fully himself. It’s really hard to put words to. I try to ask [Logan] about Marcia (Hiam Abbass) right after that, and that’s my attempt at like, “I’m going to approach this adult as an adult. O.K. No, I don’t know what I’m doing.” I know that this isn’t sounding very clear, but I would pretty much agree with what you said about him becoming childlike. You know what though? He does that with Kendall. I think sometimes when Roman and Ken are alone, they revert back to some bullying of each other, which both Jeremy and I had talked about. We feel like Roman was more of the bully, the younger brother bully. I come from seven [siblings]. There’s such a thing as younger sibling bullying, which is that just be mean to the older one until they fight, then go, “Mom!” And then the older one gets in trouble because they should know better.
And it’s a great way to get attention and adoration when you’re a five year old. I get it. There’s also that moment in season two where Logan tells Roman he’s a moron. You respond, and, I don’t recall you playing this side of you playing Roman before. The response back, “I’m not a moron, Dad,” in a scene that’s supposed to be awkward and bizarre because of the game that’s going on, it’s almost a little bit of a gut punch. When you read the script, was it clear to you it had to be that way?
No, because, f**k, it really is so bendy. I feel like the whole process is go with the flow. I don’t plan how a moment is supposed to go. I don’t try to rehearse it or overthink it because then we get in the room and the room looks different. The actor is bringing in something else. It just changes. I didn’t think that when Kendall and I fought over the phone that it was going to be as intense as it was, but the intensity of it just grew, the struggle was big. Then when we rehearsed it, for whatever reason, Jeremy and I were more or less screaming at each other from across the room then I think they thought it might make sense for Colin’s security to be between us. I think that just happened naturally. Because of the momentum of that [moment], and dad called me a moron, it just felt like a gut punch. I think you’re right. I don’t know that I read it on the page and thought, “Hmm, that’s a gut punch.” You were saying about how Roman will talk back, almost instinctively, because he’s very reactionary. There’s that thing where he says, “If you bring him back, I will walk back to my office to sulk.” My reaction is to be like, “Don’t f**k with me.” Then I realize who I’m talking to, and then, “Oh, nevermind.” There was one [moment] in the first episode of the second season, this isn’t a braggy thing, it wasn’t scripted. It just came out of my mouth every single take, and I apologized every time. Then, eventually, [director] Mark Mylod told me, “No, it’s fine. You can just leave it in there.” It’s when Dad announces that Kendall and Roman are going to be co-COOs, and I said, “You’re bringing him back?” And he goes, “That’s my decision.” And I said, “Well, it’s bullshit.” I just said that every time. That wasn’t written. I was like, “I’m sorry. Edit out. Cut it out.” For whatever reason, the moment he tells me that the guy that tried to kill the company is now back and I have to share a position with him, this doesn’t make any sense. I’m the guy. I can immediately yell back at that, and nobody else in the room can do that. Gerri, Frank, nobody can say, “Hey, Dad. Your decision is bullshit.”
That takes me then to the end of the season then, because I feel like you get to that final episode and all three of the siblings have sort of come together. They feel like brothers and sisters who sort of love each other. And then, we obviously know what Kendall does. Can you only imagine, in a third season, that Roman is just furious again?
Kendall tried to kill the company before, and immediately it felt like, “Well, he tried to kill us. He’s dead to us.” But then Thanksgiving rolls around and he’s still there. I think that that’s what happens in this family, is it doesn’t matter if you’re mortal enemies, you’re also still family. I just feel like, as much as the cliffhanger of the second season feels like, “Oh, the family will be divided and it’s going to be dramatic,” I could easily see Roman and Kendall walking down the street, shooting the shit. I don’t know. They’re still brothers, and I think they’re also used to this. This isn’t the first time Ken has tried to f**k the company. But yeah, I actually don’t know. Do you recall in the first season there was a scene in the boathouse with Shiv, Ken, and Roman?
Oh, yeah.
There was a scene that we shot at the end of the second season, which, if you’re on the HBO Max app or whatever, the picture for episode 10 is the four siblings sitting on the back of the yacht. That’s from a scene that was not used, which, I probably can’t talk about it, but it was what you’d describe as the walls being down and, basically, just being siblings at this moment, thinking that Kendall’s going to fall on the sword. Because of that, there’s the possibility that Roman’s going to be all fire and bluster and rage, and hate Kendall. There’s also the possibility that he understands because of the position Dad put him in. He’s kind of just awful to his brother the whole time. But under that, he definitely feels protective of him, I think, and there is definitely love there too. Sorry, this is a long rant, but I feel like what I can say about the entire show, that applies to pretty much every dynamic, is that nothing is this or that. There is nothing that’s wholly one thing ever, and if it ever starts to become that way, we’re doing it wrong. Jesse or somebody else will spot that, “O.K. this scene is becoming about something, and it can’t be that.”
Does that also apply to Roman’s relationship or infatuation with Gerri?
Yeah. That’s actually the perfect [example, because remember he says, “Do you want to get married? I mean, not that, but we can chop each other into bits or eat each other or chain you in a basement or something.” Maybe he means, “Let’s get married.” Maybe he just means, “Let’s have sex,” or maybe, “Let’s not have sex ever. I don’t mean that romantic way. Let’s have a business marriage or no marriage or let’s be buddies or let’s never talk again.” I don’t know.
When those scenes started to appear did you and J. Smith-Cameron talk about how to play it?
No. I try not to talk about anything with anybody when we get on set. J. is one of those people who really likes to talk a scene out. She’s done a lot of theater, so that makes sense, and that’s usually what I’m used to, but on this show, I just hardly like talking about stuff. So, J. is one of those people who, when we get on a set, she just wants to figure out the whole scope of the scene and why am I doing this, and all that stuff. And my process, I almost have my fingers in my ears going, “I don’t want to know why Gerri does blank, and I don’t want to try to figure out why Roman says the stuff he does. He just does and it makes sense.”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw17WcKVEe4
Over season two is there any moment in particular that you were most surprised with how it turned out considering how you shot the scene?
Hmm. I definitely feel like there’s stuff where I’m like, “Oh, cool. They left that in there.” Here’s something that’s kind of cool. My wife has even asked me this sometimes. She’ll see a moment and she’ll be like, “Is that you, because that sounds like you, or was that a written line?” And I don’t know. I just assume it’s all written, but I really don’t know. Sometimes Snook does something and I’m like, “No, Snook just did that and they left it in.” But it could have been written. I just don’t know anymore because it doesn’t matter. We’re all in this thing, making it. It’s exciting to see these scripts and see what’s happening, and then what makes it and what doesn’t make it. When I watch the show, I can actually watch it as a fan because I don’t really know. I could be wrong about this, but I feel like they write a script to be about an hour and 10. Then they shoot it to be an hour and a half, and then they have to cut it to be under an hour. A lot of stuff doesn’t make it, so it’s interesting to see what stuff does.
I don’t always talk to people who even work on great series who are that excited about what they do. Everyone that I talk to who works on this show genuinely seems to love it and that they have a great time.
It’s rare, dude. I’ve been doing this for over 30 years and I’ve never had a job like this. It’s funny to even use the word job because it’s just a damn joy. It never works like this. I’m spoiled, and I hope it goes on for 100 years because I feel like I don’t know how to do any other job any other way.
Do you think there will ever be a winner in “Succession” or is it just a game of fortunes for this family forever?
Will somebody actually get the throne kind of thing?
Yeah. Because, honestly, I don’t think anyone will. I just think, even if Logan dies, that it will just be this continuing battle over it again and again and again.
Well, for me, that premise and the title of the show and just the fact that the pilot ends with Logan ending up in a coma, was just a springboard for what I feel like the show is actually about, which is just this family. To me, it doesn’t matter how much power and influence someone has, they’re still going to be just as f**ked up as you and me. That’s more of what it becomes about. I often forget that that’s a driving force because, for me, for Roman, yeah, it’s a kiss from daddy. Yeah, it’s the throne, but I’m not sure that it really is about that. So, with that said, when I said the show isn’t really about this or that, if the show starts to become about who gets it, then I feel like we’re not really “Succession” anymore.
That’s a great way to put it, actually. Kieran, thank you so much for taking the time. I genuinely hope you get more sleep. I know that if I was only getting three to six hours at night, I would not be a happy person.
Not to sound corny, but when I wake up after three hours and my body’s aching, I’m just like, “I don’t even know if there’s coffee made yet.” Then I stumble into the living room, and then my baby, by just seeing me, she lights up with a big smile and slaps her hands on the floor and crawls over to me. I’m wide awake and the whole day is worth it. It’s kind of amazing.
“Succession” season two is available on HBO and HBO Max.