“The Traitors” season 4 has finally dropped. Well, at least the first three episodes. And before the 23 contestants even made it into the castle, host Alan Cumming had a surprise. This season, a “Secret Traitor” will be selected. A Traitor whose identity will be kept secret from the other Traitors. Moreover, Cumming picked the Secret Traitor while showing them a special tarot card in front of the other contestants. Did anyone give their selection away? Or were they all poker-faced?
If you have not watched the first three episodes of “The Traitor” season 4, there are major spoilers ahead.
As the episodes progress, the traditionally selected Traitors find out that the Secret Traitor has the power to limit the number of Faithfuls that can be murdered. Meanwhile, production has raised the stakes with the challenges. By the end of Episode 3, there hasn’t been one mission where a significant number of players have been protected from elimination. But the Faithfuls are on the hunt, and from the first episode, a handful of potential Traitors are targeted. By the middle of Episode 3? Perhaps the most shocking roundtable elimination in the short history of “The Traitors” U.S. so far (emphasis on “so far”).
We caught up with executive producers Mike Cotton and Sam Rees-Jones to discuss the jaw-dropping moment, how production has a lot more twists coming, the fate of the gamers vs. the “Real Housewives” this season, and so much more.
Last Warning: If you have not watched the third episode of “The Traitors” season 4, there are massive spoilers ahead.
Again, you have been warned.
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The Playlist: Sam and Mike, congratulations on at least the first three episodes.
Mike Cotton: Great. You enjoyed them?
The Playlist: Oh my God. By the time people get to the end of the third episode, the internet is going to explode. It’ll be very late on the East Coast, but either that or the next morning, they’ll do it. I have to start with that aspect of the show. Google tells me no other international version of “The Traditors” has done a Secret Traitor before. Where did the idea come from? And what made you want to incorporate it this season?
Mike Cotton: Look, lots of people in the past have said, “Wouldn’t it be really interesting if we didn’t know who the Traitors were?” We’ve read that on socials. I’ll be honest, we don’t agree, actually. We think it’s really interesting that you know who the Traitors are because you get to see their duplicity and how they play the game. But we did think it would be really interesting if you didn’t know who one of them was and you had a chance to play along yourself and have a season where, for a moment, everyone, including the audience, is a Faithful. So, we liked the idea of that and playing with that. And we thought there was quite a fun play that could be had with the viewers for a bit, which is why we introduced it.
Sam Rees-Jones: Because there’s something really joyous, as Mike said, for a few episodes, watching Porscha and thinking, “Is it a slip-up?” You’re watching as a viewer, going, “Is it a slip-up or is she a traitor or is it a mistake?” Being in the same seat as a Faithful. Is Donna’s behavior that of a Traitor or is she just trying to get along in the game? So, you’re used to having a bird’s eye view, but to be in the same seat for a couple of round tables is a different dynamic and, we hope, exciting to watch.
The Playlist: I believe you guys shot this after the current UK season, right? Isn’t that usually the order of filming?
Mike Cotton: We shoot them roughly at the same time, one after another. Yeah.
The Playlist: As you are aware, we can’t legally watch the current UK season here in the US, yet. Did you learn anything from the experience on UK using the Secret Traitor that helped here? Or did it turn out very differently?
Mike Cotton: They turned out differently. We also executed them differently as well. So the way the Secret Traitor was chosen was very different. The knowledge that the Secret Traitor had was slightly different. So, although they both had the same concept, they were sort of done differently. I wouldn’t say that we learned from doing one to the other because we went into it knowing prior that we wanted different things from both of them.
Sam Rees-Jones: For the U.S. series, Gregory, picking the Secret Traitor at the very start was an idea that we’d played around with. It felt terrifying when we were in pre-production. The idea that a Traitor is going to be picked, they’re not blindfolded,
they’re in front of everyone that they’ve just met. They’ve got to have a poker face. Everyone is looking for any tale at that point. That idea was terrifying. But when an idea is a little bit terrifying in pre-production, you always think, “Oh, this could be exciting to watch.” And, like Mike said, I think the beauty of the Traitors is that the game is always so different based on who walks into the castle. So we never know how it’s going to play out. And that’s what’s so satisfying as producers as well. We never know the outcome. We never know what’s going to happen, and it takes us by surprise. We hope it will take the viewers by surprise.
The Playlist: I wanted to go down that road. Who had the idea of picking Donna as the Secret Traitor? And in those interviews with Alan or in pre-production, if someone tells you, “Hey, I really don’t want to be a Traitor,” does that go into part of the discussion like, “We’re not going to bring someone over there and then put them in position,” or, “Hey, you came and played the game, you might not have wanted to be one, but we’re going to make you one anyway“?
Sam Rees-Jones: We never like to go too much into why we pick Traitors, but you want the Traitor to be a Traitor because it’s a hard role to play within the castle. Anyone could be recruited at any point. So the players have to walk into that castle knowing that they might become a Traitor at some point. With regards to Donna, it was a really close conversation that we had with the network. I think she said a line that I think sums it up brilliantly. I’m not going to quote this perfectly, but she says, “I can’t wait to be a nice lady by day and a killer by night. “And as a Secret Traitor, that’s quite a fun thing to play with for a guessing game.
Mike Cotton: Yeah, I think like Sam said, anyone who comes into … We tell all the players that we can’t guarantee you won’t be a Traitor because anyone could get recruited. I think we would never initially pick someone that flat out didn’t want to be a Traitor because you’ve got to want to do it. We want them to want to relish that role. And I think Donna being the Secret Traitor was really interesting. She’s like the nation’s mom, in many ways.
The Playlist: Did you think she would last longer? Were you surprised by how this all played out in episode three?
Sam Rees-Jones: I’m never going to predict a boot order on this show because I would always get it wrong. Honestly, I will never do that because we will always get it wrong. We go into every round table, every turret, never knowing what the outcome is. So, we would be foolish to try to predict when people would go.
Mike Cotton: Yeah, that’s the beauty of the show. We never know what’s going to happen. I think we probably always speak like, “I wonder who’ll make the final?” at the start of the season. And you can never be right because it can change on a dime. In the morning in the castle, you might think one person’s going to go, then something entirely different happens at the round table. Would it be nice to see Donna longer? Yes, it probably would. But that’s the beauty of this game is that anyone could go at any point.
The Playlist: Well, in that context for this game…
Sam Rees-Jones: Did you think it was her, Gregory?
The Playlist: No, no, not at all. That’s why I think people are going to be shocked. I thought the Faithfuls just wanted to get rid of her because she was an easy out. But you’re watching that episode, and it all feels like just a hunch. But there’s no evidence. It’s not like Porsha, who slipped up in the previous episodes, which was weird because she couldn’t defend herself under pressure. But Donna, she hadn’t really done anything, and they just all went after her. And then almost every single one of them votes for her. As producers, were you like, “Did we slip up?” What was going through your mind in the control room then?
Mike Cotton: I mean, it’s always heart-stopping in the control room. I mean, when we plan the seasons of “The Traitors,” we’ll plan something like this, and we think about every single different eventuality. A lot of preparation goes into the season going, “Well, how could this play out?” Like any board game, there’s 20 different ways in which something could happen. And we’ll think through those things, and we’ll have a plan in place. And we would never introduce a twist unless we knew that it didn’t matter whether the secret Traitor got revealed or not. We sort of plan everything perfectly. I think people had suspicions about Donna. Some of them from very early on, whether that’s because they thought that she would make a great Traitor or surprising Traitor, or because of the way that she’s acting within the castle. And so I think we could see that momentum building. We’re watertight. So we never worry that we’ve slipped up. We feel like we’re pros at this now, but I think we could see it building. And yeah, like I say, I never know which way around the table’s going to go.
The Playlist: It’s a good thing they all went in together because if the Swifties are going to attack, they’re going to attack every single member of the cast now. [Laughs]. If she had survived that roundtable, she was supposed to join the other Traitors because they had accomplished their murder in plain sight challenge. Was she going to become just a “regular Traitor”? Would her power to determine the four whatever people they’d eliminate go away?
Mike Cotton: Yeah, the whole idea was that they’d won the power back to supposedly unite as one. So, if she hadn’t been banished, she’d have been assimilated with the other Traitors, and they would’ve become one.
Sam Rees-Jones: It’s what I love about the show, though, because hopefully you’ll enjoy the rest of the season. But if that had happened, then the narrative for the whole season might’ve taken a different path. Her getting banished at that point and the three Traitors continuing has a different narrative and a narrative that is … I can’t wait for the audience to watch it, but what’s so thrilling is that those moments that happen, it’s like a murder mystery. Something happens that changes the narrative, and you go off in a direction. Everything happens and has a consequence. So Donna’s going has made a different dynamic in the turret because they haven’t had that fourth Traitor come in, and I can’t wait for the audience to watch what happens.
The Playlist: Are there any other planned twists, not necessarily gameplay twists, that you have integrated into this season that fans should look forward to?
Sam Rees-Jones: Oh, we’ve got loads of things up our sleeves.
Mike Cotton: Yeah, there’s something really great coming in the season. I can’t even hint at what it was because it would spoil it. But yes, there’s definitely some … It’s like a big series this season.
Sam Rees-Jones: We’re in season four now. There’s nothing more satisfying than when you really take the players by surprise because they do watch. They obviously watch different territories. They watch the Peacock series. They think they know what the game is about, and they think they’ve got it figured out. And when that rug is pulled from underneath their feet, which does happen a couple of times this season, it’s the best thing to watch.
The Playlist: One of the things that I also appreciated about the first couple of episodes is that every single challenge meant something. Someone is protected or not protected because of how the day’s challenge plays out. So far, that’s a big change from the previous seasons. Was that a priority in planning out the show this year?
Sam Rees-Jones: Yeah, it was a big priority. We want the missions to feel involved in the main story of the Traitors, and it’s filtered into the castle a few times. And, again, there’s lots to come as well. There’s been some really revealing moments in the mission where you see players in different lights that maybe you didn’t expect. Colton’s hands shaking while he’s trying to release Caroline was a real telling moment for him. Yam Yam crying because his shield was burnt in episode two. There are some real moments where you get to know the cast so much better in different lights, and then it feeds into the castle. So it just makes the whole show feel … What’s the word, Mike?
Mike Cotton: Cohesive. It joins it together. Yeah, I think obviously the primary purpose of the missions is to raise that money for the prize fund. But as Sam says, I think what we’ve worked really hard to do over from season one onwards is trying to make out how you integrate the story of the missions into the overall game. And I think we feel like we are really pleased with how that worked in this current season.
The Playlist: At the end of episode three, Ron seemed super, super sad and very down. And I don’t remember any player in the previous three seasons seeming this emotionally at a low point, maybe at the end of the game, but never this early. Were you worried for him at all? I know we’ve got a long way to go, and he seemed gung-ho to be tied to the tree and do what he has to do, but were you guys worried at all for his mental state?
Sam Rees-Jones: No. The utmost priority is everyone’s welfare and mental health. Of course, it is a pressure cooker in the castle. Things feel heightened, and gameplay feels immersive, but no, the welfare support that we have around our players is the best that I’ve ever worked with. We take it more seriously than anything on the show that takes priority over entertainment, takes priority over anything. So no, we weren’t worried at all about Ron. Ron just threw himself into this murder mystery. He loves to play games, and he threw himself into that, and he played it true to how he wanted to play it. He wasn’t a people pleaser. He was just trying to figure out this murder mystery and who the Traitors and he was completely immersed in the game.
Mike Cotton: I was going to say, look, obviously, he goes on a real journey in the show as well because he worked really hard at the first round table with Porscha, and then his story evolved from there. But yeah, we call them in the UK because it’s fun in the UK, like a welfare team. So it’s watching the show. They watch all the filming. There are psychologists there as well. If there’s a real concern, they flag something to us straight away as well.
The Playlist: So I have to ask this, and it’s only a criticism because I’m personally annoyed. Seriously, though, two Housewives as Traitors? Was this a Bravo mandate? [Laughs.]
Mike Cotton: I think that’s every season, the makeup of the Traitors has been different. Last season, we had quite a gamer-heavy turret that somewhat self-destructed in many ways with all of them there. And we like to change it up each season and do something a bit different, have a different mix of personalities. So, I guess I think we thought, wouldn’t it be really interesting if we started in a slightly different way and had two Housewives in the turret to start with? And who knows where that will go and what will happen with that?
Sam Rees-Jones: And also, it just adds different elements to the show because last series with our Traitors, they wouldn’t have had a conga through the castle during a murder in plain sight. That wouldn’t have happened. So, it brings different takes on how to play the game as traitors.
The Playlist: In that context, by the time we are at the end of this episode, we’ve already got two gamers gone in Ian and Rob C. Were you surprised that they were taking each other out so quickly in that context? Or again, just you never know how the game’s going to go?
Sam Rees-Jones: Were we surprised that they took out the gamers? We are never surprised in this show, Gregory. We’re never surprised by who goes in what order. Someone might tune in for a certain type of person. Our job as storytellers and producers is to, sure, you might be a fan of so- and-so, but then you are following the narrative arc of someone else, hopefully very quickly. The game moves so quickly, and the show moves so quickly that once someone’s banished, we’re onto the next thing. Donna was banished. We’re onto the next thing. So, no. And also, what I love about our show is that you see people that you maybe didn’t expect to be strategic or have a game-playing mind. I think there are some people this season that you’ll really love seeing their game and strategic mind, who aren’t from your traditional gaming backgrounds.
The Playlist: Well, that was my last question for you. Without obviously giving anything away for any future episodes, who surprised you the most? Who was funnier than you thought? Who was giving you more story than you might’ve expected?
Sam Rees-Jones: That’s such a hard one to answer, isn’t it, without giving anything away?
The Playlist: I mean, it could be something minor like, “We didn’t expect Kristen to wipe off the spread off her sandwich.” By the way, that shot is so great. Top-tier editing. I know it’s hard to remember, but did anybody pop that you were not expecting?
Sam Rees-Jones: I’m going to give a boring answer. Of all the seasons we’ve done, what I’ve loved about this season is that we’ve never had a cast that immersed themselves in the game as much as this season. All of them were just so fully immersed. And I think that’s what makes for such compelling content. From the very get-go, when they got out of the drive, they were just all ready to go in their different ways, with their different styles and their different mannerisms, and immerse themselves in the show. And as producers, that’s all we can ask for.
Mike Cotton: Yeah, I agree with that. They’re the most invested cast. What’s interesting is that each season, the cast has watched all the other seasons, and they come and play it harder. So, I think the cast this year plays it harder in many ways than we’ve had before. And I also think we’re harder on them. I think we’re tougher this year. It’s tougher for the Faithfuls. You haven’t obviously seen what’s coming down the line. It’s tough for the Faithfuls, and it’s tougher for the Traitors. We really pushed them and tested them this year because they’ve watched other seasons. They’re all coming in with preconceived ideas of how they might be able to win this. So, we make it really hard on them this year, and how they respond to that and the moves that they make, the game moves that they make in response to that, in some ways are really surprising. I can’t say who, but I do think some people will surprise.
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