An hour before NBC Universal announced that a new stand-alone season of “The Traitors” would feature a civilian cast and air on NBC, the show’s Emmy-winning host jumped on the phone to discuss the reigning Reality Competition Series champion. The fact he kept this news secret was impressive for Cumming. Especially since during our conversation, he partially gave away a non-elmination about season four we won’t be spoiling here. And, as he told us, keeping secrets about “The Traitors” is harder than re-entering the Marvel Universe as Nightcrawler in “Avengers: Doomsday.”
Cumming was in Los Angeles for a last-minute Emmy event before final voting begins on Monday. “The Traitors” and Cumming are already prohibitive favorites to win both the Reality Competition Series and Outstanding Host Emmy for the second straight year. In fact, it would be an upset if anyone else did, considering the viewership for season three went through the roof.
The fourth season cast was announced after the cast disappeared to film the show this past June. It will once again debut sometime in January. We weren’t fishing for spoilers for the upcoming season, but we were curious how the game played out in a dramatically different political environment. The show has rarely discussed real-life events outside of the personal stories of the contestants. Would that change for the fourth go-around?
“I think this season three was the portait America needed to see. That it had chaos, it had toxicity, it had all that stuff, and then it resolved itself in this very kind of loving, supportive way,” Cumming explains. “In this new season, there is chaos again, once more. There is chaos and it’s brutal. It’s brutal. I mean, I think in a funny way it does sort of, it’s a bunch of people trapped in a bubble, but they obviously are a cross-section of the outside world, and they are obviously coming in with the energy of the outside world. So yeah, it is really fascinating as a psychological exercise to see how it mirrors what’s going on. So, definitely, if you think we have a strong toxic leader right now, then that would also be safe to think that there might be one of those in the next season too.”
During our conversation Cumming discusses his favorite memories of season three (it may involve “Real Housewives” getting wet), his difficulty at keeping secrets, his role in the Brian Cox’s directorial debut, “Glenrothan,” a world premiere at the 2025 Toronto Film Festival next month, and much more.
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The Playlist: Congratulations on the Emmy nominations.
Alan Cumming: Thank you very much. Thank you.
What did the five nominations for the show mean to you?
I mean, I think it’s great that the show is being recognized in other areas. I really do. It is a fascinating thing for me to work on something like this. The scale of it, just in terms of the production design and just the amount of, the sheer number of cameras alone, and the production values are so high. It is incredible actually. So, although it is not anything I’ve done before, I actually am really gobsmacked by how high the standards are. And so for those people to be recognized as well as just sort of the flashy people at me, it’s really nice.
The second season took a massive jump in terms of viewership and ratings, and then the third season went through the roof. For a moment, it was the biggest show Peacock had ever had. Are you surprised by how the show keeps growing in popularity?
Yes, you sort of think, “How much more popular can it get?” I mean, since seemingly everyone in the whole world watched it, I don’t know, but it’s completely shocking and the sort of definition of a pleasant surprise because it’s actually a really lovely thing to do something you really enjoy, that is really great and with really great people, and everybody just really responds to it and it goes nuts for it. It’s a little alarming at times, despite when you’re me walking down the street, but this is why you do it, to be in something that you really like that everybody else really likes, and with such great, as I say, great, such great production values and people at the top of their game.
Do you remember before shooting season three, if you and the team had any specific goals that you wanted to accomplish with the show? Did you want to do anything differently than you had in the previous two seasons?
I mean, I think we learned a lot from the first two seasons. And I think when you do a new thing, everyone’s a bit nervous and a bit sort of afraid to be bold. And I think what we’ve learned is that the bolder we are, the more the greater it is. So, I think that it was more kind of, I mean, we still have conversations, that’s I’m usually going, “Oh, come on, let’s do it!” And everything. “I’m not sure that’s maybe too much,” but actually it’s a great thing where boldness and turning the volume up and sort of theatricality and camp, in its true definition, absolutely triumphed. And so that’s great. I really enjoy that fact that the more chances we take, the more crazy we are, but it’s always from a place of the games, the authenticity of the game on the show. But no, it seems to be working very well in that when we push it, people come with us. So that’s really great.
Was there one memory or one moment that you’ll always remember from shooting season three?
I think Danielle falling off her chair, shaking, crying, her head falling off. Just the audacity of her acting. I was gobsmacked. They actually said to me in my earpiece, “Alan, your face, your face, your face!” Because I lost my poker face, and my mouth was a gape. Yeah, the audacity of that performance was just insane. So yeah, I think it’s, and then also housewives getting wet is always pretty delicious for me. Definitely. I think it was better the season before. Phaedra getting wet, falling in a lock, was one of my favorite things.
So, the irony is that a housewife did win at the end of the season, but so many of the housewives were eliminated early on in a seemingly strategic move by all the other players. Was that a worry while you guys were shooting it? Was production afraid that the players had sort of taken too much of the “talent” out of the game?
[Laughs.] Sorry, I mean, I think the other players who are not housewives would take some offense to that question. I mean, obviously ,there’s people that are good value that you think, “Oh no, they’ve killed that part.” I mean, of course,e you have no control over that. But no, I mean, I feel like I actually think Dorinda going first is a bit like when they kill Janet Leigh in “Psycho” in the first reel. Everyone’s like, “Oh, Dorinda is in it.” And then the next thing, she’s dead. I think it is hilarious to me that the housewives kind of really stick together. They’re very tribal and very sort of blindly loyal. And also at the same time, they have this persecution complex. They think there’s a sort of a vendetta against the Housewives every year. They always say it, and it’s not true. It’s just that there are loads of them. So some of them have got to die. It is housewife collateral damage.
Listen, it’s a competition show. Someone has to go home every week. Right? You all can’t stay.
Right, exactly. It’s so interesting about who is the first one to go because Johnny Bananas said to me, “Why Alan? Why do you get with me?” And I said, “Well, the only sort of thing I can think of is that all the people from the seasons who’ve gone first have been kind of annoying.” They’re too brass or mighty or kind of coming on a bit too strong. I think that’s perhaps what it is, and nobody really wants to hear that, but there it is.
There it is. But this is an entertainment show. You are all are having fun, but the first three seasons of this show were shot in a different political climate. And there are contestants may be celebrities, but they are all from all walks of life, different parts of the country, and all different backgrounds. I know you can’t say very much about season four, but does the real world at all seep in to the new season, or is it still, “we’re making this show, we’re in a bubble, we’re escaping from the rest of the world” sort of tone?
Well, in a funny way, I think this season three was the portait America needed to see. That it had chaos, it had toxicity, it had all that stuff, and then it resolved itself in this very kind of loving, supportive way. In this new season, there is chaos again, once more. There is chaos and it’s brutal. It’s brutal. I mean, I think in a funny way it does sort of, it’s a bunch of people trapped in a bubble, but they obviously are a cross-section of the outside world, and they are obviously coming in with the energy of the outside world. So yeah, it is really fascinating as a psychological exercise to see how it mirrors what’s going on. So, definitely, if you think we have a strong toxic leader right now, then that would also be safe to think that there might be one of those in the next season too.
And I have to ask you, now that you’re back in the Marvel fold, is it harder to keep secrets about the Traitors or an “Avengers” movie?
[Laughs.] I think it’s hard just to with “The Traitors,” because with the “Avengers,” I don’t really understand the plot that well. So I mean, I got in trouble for saying something that was, I think, in retrospect, I actually had it wrong. So, that’s probably very good. But with “The Traitors,” it’s also lonely. There are only so few people that I see outside of the time when I shoot it. I maybe talk to a couple of people for the rest of the year who know what’s happened. And of course I want to talk about it, and even my husband, he doesn’t want me to tell him. And so it is difficult. And also, I really don’t want to spoil it for people. There was a comedian, Pat Regan, who was on a comedy special that I did for Showtime a couple of years ago with Club Cumming. And I just finished the first season [of “The Traitors”], and my assistant said, “Oh, this is Pat, and he’s a big competition, reality show fan, and he looks excited about ‘The Traitors’.” And I went, “Oh, are you really? Do you watch the love those shows?” He went, “Oh, I love them. I just love Cirie and ‘Survivor’ so much.” I’m like, “Oh, she wins,” and his face just fell. It was just awful. And I realized in that moment, “I can’t do that to people watching.” I always say to people, “Do you want to know?” But it’s difficult. The good thing is I forget as well, because I’m a bit of a dick, I actually forget what’s happened. So today I’ve been doing a few of these interviews. It’s actually like a crash course getting back into it, and then soon I’ll start doing the voiceovers for it. So that’s when I gradually get back up to speed by the time it comes out because I’ve watched all the stuff going on and have to do all the voiceover and the ADR.
I’m also assuming you forget about it because you’re super busy. In fact, you also have a new movie debut at TIFF next month, “Glenrothan,” which is Brian Cox’s directorial debut. Can you tell us anything about it and what the experience was like?
It was lovely, actually. It’s a really lovely film, beautiful film, and I mean literally it is a beautiful film shot in Scotland. It’s sort of Brian’s love letter to Scotland. He said that when we were making it, and he really, it took him a while to come together, but he really, really got passionate about it. It’s about two brothers, me and him. And we have come from a whiskey distillery family, and I’ve gone off to America to become a soul blues singer in Chicago, and he stayed at home manning the fort and everything like that. And we’ve fallen out years and years ago. And now I come back, and it’s sort of picking up the pieces of the past, but it’s a really lovely film. I had such fun doing it. And he’s a hoot.
[Cumming pauses for a moment]
I was actually looking through some photographs the other day and there there’s a bit when we have a sort of fight and I just got this picture, both of us on this crash mat, and I took a picture of Brian from my angle of him lying on the crash mat next to me in the middle of the night and freezing Scotland. And I just said, “What are we doing?” So ridiculous. He charges at me. So, it was a lovely film and we stayed in Glasgow, but it’s sort of in the area and all those places, absolutely beautiful. But going to work every morning was just stunning. I’m looking forward to seeing. I’ve not seen it on the big screen, and I can’t go to TIFF, unfortunately, because I’m shooting something in England.
Oh no.
I know I’m doing this new…I better not say that. It’s not been announced.
Oh, you can’t say it. Can you reveal if it’s a movie or a television program?
It’s a television series. I know they haven’t actually put that out, so I guess not.
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Y’know, he might just be getting a wee bit better at keeping secrets. A wee bit.
“The Traitors” is available to stream on Peacock
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Editor-at-Large Gregory Ellwood is one of the entertainment industry's most respected journalists and critics. Based in Los Angeles, he's the only current awards expert who previously worked on Oscar campaigns at a major movie studio. Over the years, he has written for the LA Times, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, and Vox, among others. He also co-founded the entertainment news site HitFix, which spawned a legion of influential Emmy and WGA Award-winning alumni.
