When it premiered at the Venice Film Festival all the way back in 2020, Greek filmmaker Christos Nikou had the unlikeliest movie of the moment with his debut feature “Apples.” The film, produced long before COVID-19 upended the world, dealt with a fictional pandemic in which a mysterious illness causes amnesia. There’s droll comedy and poignant drama alike as protagonist Aris (Aris Servetalis) begins a guided program to recover what he’s lost: his memory.
But two years and change into the pandemic world, the timeless message of “Apples” now features as prominently as its timeliness. Nikou’s film is a poignant examination of what it means to really live in a time when a population is acutely aware of loss. As Aris works through a cassette tape manual to access his past by documenting new experiences in self-timed Polaroid pictures, his absurd adventures ask the audience for whom – and when – they are really living. It’s a lesson for the digital and social media age that resists easy sermonizing.
With his film finally getting a stateside release, Nikou spoke with The Playlist over Zoom from his home in Athens. He spoke about his filmic inspirations, how he evolved the film’s unique tone, and what audiences can expect from his upcoming film “Fingernails,” starring Jessie Buckley and produced by Cate Blanchett.
You’ve cited “The Truman Show” as a formative film. What is it about the movie that inspired you to make your own films?
They create this world. And in general, what I loved so much in this film is the tone. I think that this film has the perfect tone. It has a perfect balance between comedy and drama. I love when you can feel a cocktail of emotions in a film, and you can laugh and cry maybe at the same time. And I think “The Truman Show” is doing that perfectly. At the same time, it’s an amazing, very creative script that is also a great prophecy for our life. When I watched “The Truman Show” for the first time, I was already watching a lot of films. I was so fascinated by it that I said to myself, “Okay, that’s something that I want to do in the future. I want to write scripts like that.” After two years, I started writing scripts when I was 16. And since then, I’ve been trying to make cinema.
And what about Jim Carrey? I know you told Aris to watch “The Truman Show” and “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” in preparation for his role. How does that influence play out in the film?
I love comedians in general. And I love when they can perform something that is a little bit more dramatic. They put all their energy that is going very high in the comedy, but in a dramatic role, all this energy is going very deep inside so you can feel it. That’s something that always fascinates me [with] comedic actors. Like, for example, Bill Murray or Robin Williams, his dramatic role in “Good Will Hunting.” There are many others from the last 30 years but, to be honest, in the last 10 years, we haven’t seen a lot of comedic actors that have done something really great. That was the idea about the character that we’re creating who can sometimes be a little bit funny but, at the same time, with a deadpan performance and a little bit more esoteric color. It’s more minimal to say more with less.
Have you thought about trying to convince him to come out of retirement? I really just can’t fathom the idea of “Sonic the Hedgehog 2” being his final role.
I want to work with him a lot! I think that it is such a pity that this was his last role.
What did you pick up from being on set as an assistant director for Yorgos Lanthimos and Richard Linklater that affected the way you’d run your own? I’ve talked with actors who describe their different approaches but all say such great things, so I’m curious if that extends to the crew as well.
Actually, in all the films that I have worked on — even in the not-so-good ones, because I’ve worked in eight films as an AD — I was getting something from the directors that I worked with. But specifically for these two, I think that both of them, you can feel that they knew exactly what they were doing. You could feel that they knew exactly how to create the right conditions, especially for their actors performing. They work in a different way. Linklater, for example, I remember that he was creating a little bit more familial environment on set, and the way that he was working with his two actors. They are like a family, he and Ethan [Hawke] and Julie [Delpy]. For sure, you could feel that all the time on set.
How do you feel about the term “Greek Weird Wave?” I know a number of directors associated with it don’t necessarily love it — has the term outlived its usefulness?
Yes, I think, to be honest, we can call it a little bit of lazy work to categorize things like that. I don’t believe that all the movies that are made in Greece belong to this category. I think that this category is more Yorgos and his co-writer, Efthymis Filippou. They created this weird, sarcastic, sometimes really dark style. All the themes look a little bit different, but if they are coming from Greece, somehow they immediately belong in that category. For sure, there were copies of this style from many directors, but I don’t believe that all the movies belong to that wave. And also, I cannot understand this term completely, to be honest.
You’ve mentioned the film was written primarily as a straight comedy, and it’s now something a bit more melancholic. When and how did the tone start shifting?
The tone that we had in “Apples” — and we will try also to have it in “Fingernails,” my new project — I call it a “melancholic smile” tone. I love when a movie can create a cocktail of emotions, and somehow you can laugh and cry at the same time. We tried at the beginning to make it more comedic. Always, when I’m writing something, I am going a little bit to the edge at the beginning, and then try to find the balance. You cannot find the balance from the beginning. I think that you always have to go to the edge and try things. And then the topic of memory and grief that we’re dealing [with] in the film is something tragic on its own. It was easier, I think, to find this balance. It came naturally, somehow, to find this balance and to create that tone.
How did you find the editing rhythm for the film and know how long you could hold a moment? Are you extending scenes on set rather than calling cut so you can draw them out in the edit?
Yes, I was never saying cut! I’m always trying to give something [room] to breathe for the actor. The best moments are always coming where you don’t expect them. But sometimes, moments that they look like that but they were completely sold in from the beginning. It’s not that we found it in the editing that it would be like that.
Did you have a more expansive version of “Apples” with bigger world-building in mind if you were on more than a shoestring budget?
I wouldn’t have changed a lot of things. For sure, if we had a bigger budget, we would have tried to do some tasks that we weren’t able to do, like the one with the parachute that they mentioned at one point. I really wanted to do something like that. And also, we didn’t have a lot of equipment, and we were a very small crew. But I don’t know if I would have changed a lot of the story, even if we had a bigger budget to create the world. It sounds like a movie about the pandemic and a dystopian story, but we shot it with the main character in the center. It’s more a character study than a world study. In the end, through the character study, we are trying to show the world.
The limitation becomes a strength because the Roy Andersson-style tableaus don’t require a ton of camera movement, but I did wonder if the budget didn’t allow for dollies, aerial shots, or anything like that.
We didn’t want to do aerial shots, for sure! [laughs] If we had a dolly, maybe we would have done some more camera movement. But again, with the stillness and the Roy Andersson style as you called it, it helps to give this comedic tone more to the audience and the performance with the physicality of the main actor.
What about small touches like the Memory+ tablet we see advertised in the background at a bus stop?
In general, we were always trying to find small hints in every scene about how to create this world. That’s why, for example, there is this advertisement next to the bus stop. Not a lot of people have observed it, to be honest, this advertisement. But yes, we were always trying to find ways to create a world that looks a little bit unusual, but at the same time very realistic. We tried to create a world that looks a little bit more analog, in a way, so all the elements that we used were more analog. We were trying to find ways [to] create a world where people are obsessed with this disease. It takes place somewhere in the past, but we don’t know when.
It’s an analog world but obviously resonates with the digital one. What do you hope audiences take away from your commentary on social media? “Apples” has more to say beyond the obvious lesson of just living in the moment and not just creating memories for later.
Social media is not bad, it is just a different way of living. We’re not telling to the audience what they have to do or what is wrong. We’re just asking them some questions if they have understood that they live that way. If they have understood, for example, that they care more about capturing something than living in the moment. For example, I was at a Nick Cave concert last week in Greece, and you could feel how almost 90% of the people that were there were watching the concert through their phones. They were, all the time, having their phones recording something or taking photos. And this made me feel a little bit sad. Why do we have to capture something all the time? Why do we have to prove that we’re living? Why immediately do you have to post it and show that you have a life? I mean, we have a life! Nobody’s asking us to prove it.
That was the comment that we tried to do with all these assignments and the tasks that the doctors have given to them. Somehow, the amnesiacs are trying to build a new life [by] taking selfies of themselves with a Polaroid camera instead of a Polaroid filter. [They] put the photo in a normal photo album, not in a digital one in a social media account, and then somebody is commenting on them. The doctors are getting into their apartments without any privacy. They just unlock the door get in and try to take their photo album. That was the idea behind the whole treatment and tasks.
A question that you pose in the film is if humans are just the sum total of what they remember. Is the converse true? Are we defined by what we forget?
I think that, for sure. That’s my opinion that we are defined also by what we forget. It’s not that we select to forget these things, but whatever we have lived and then if we remember it or not, it makes us who we are.
You mentioned your next movie, “Fingernails,” earlier. What’s the status there?
We’re in pre-production. We’re shooting in November, actually.
And are Jessie Buckley and Riz Ahmed still attached?
Yes, yes.
I know Carey Mulligan was originally attached. Did she just fall out because of scheduling?
Yes, because of scheduling. We knew it for a few months. But because of other projects that she’s booked, we couldn’t do it together.
Well, now you have Jessie Buckley. Did you all get to geek out over her working with Charlie Kaufman on “I’m Thinking of Ending Things?”
Yes, and in general, I think that Jessie has something really unique in her performances. I think that she’s probably one of my favorite actors of her generation. I really love all her performances. She looks like a clown, but at the same time, you can feel her emotions so deeply. That’s something that I really love about her.
And how has it been working with Cate Blanchett in her capacity as an executive producer on “Apples” and in a more hands-on producer role for “Fingernails?”
Cate is a person that is, first of all, super humble. You don’t feel from her that she behaves like a star. She goes to so many films and has great taste. She cares a lot about the projects. We discuss a lot about it, and she’s always bringing new ideas. Her mind, even if she’s working in other films as an actress, is always busy and working. I think that she never sleeps, actually. [laughs] Whenever I’m texting her, she’s awake. I really don’t know what is going on with her! I feel that I’m so lucky working with her, and it’s been a really great collaboration. I think that we will continue this collaboration also in the future.
From what I’ve heard, she approached you with an eye toward developing the right plan to roll out “Apples.” That level of care is so important because it’s so hard to break through the noise right now, especially whenever it seems like moviegoer behavior has shifted to only leaving home for tentpole blockbusters.
Yes, we need that. I have never seen not even one of the Marvel movies … I may have seen a few minutes, and then I stopped. I am not a big fan of these films. I think that the audience, especially after the pandemic, it looks like they are watching only one thing. They have returned a little bit to theaters. You can feel that also with “Top Gun” right now. It’s good to also support smaller films. Films that maybe have something different to say. In general, it’s the time to return back to the theaters and watch movies there. [We’ve had] enough the last two years, watching the movies only in our TV or on our laptop. It’s the right time to return.
“Apples” is now playing in select theaters.