Dislike the competitive sports nature of awards season and the Oscars? This podcast is probably for you. On the most recent episode of the excellent Talk House podcast, cinema titans (and old friends judging by the rapport of the chat) William Friedkin (“The Exorcist,” “The French Connection“) and recent Best Director and Best Picture winner Guillermo del Toro (“The Shape Of Water,”) sat down to talk about many things, but thematically, their discussion centered around the seduction of success and getting lost in accolades and awards.
READ MORE: The Essentials: The Best William Friedkin Films
Friedkin, much like Bogdanovich and many other filmmakers from the 1970s brat pack directors really got lost in the woods after he tasted success. After winning five Academy Awards for “The French Connection,” including Best Picture and Best Director, combined with the runaway monster success of “The Exorcist,” up until then the biggest blockbuster around until “Jaws” hit, Friedkin released the-then reviled “Sorcerer” and by and large his career never recovered. At least, he never became the Spielberg many predicted and the stories of his ego explosion following the two aforementioned successful pictures are a bit legendary.
Perhaps in a way to pass down wisdom, but never so overtly stated, much of their conversations focused on one’s reaction to success, the temptations of it, and the way it blinds. Interestingly enough, however, del Toro seemed to be acutely aware of it before Friedkin could even articulate any warnings.
“Success is more disorienting than failure. You get drunk and you get lost,” del Toro said, noting that he wasn’t so sucked into the awards season during “The Shape Of Water” run, but slowly and surely as it came closer to the Oscars, he felt himself very much pulled into the idea of wanting to win. “We are such a culture of success, here in The West: achievers, getters and you really lose yourself in that.”
Friedkin admitted he also became drunk on success but didn’t really go into details, saying, “I feel like I kind of lost myself. Absolutely.”
“Before, it never occurred to me. I never had it in my wildest dreams that I could make a film that could be mentioned in the same class as some of the greats. When you win this award, it goes up there,” he said of one’s pride and ego. “But then they all come back to posterity.”
As always, del Toro was immensely eloquent about everything, especially about the allure of success and being accepted by your peers, but warned that being minted as it were, can have its downside. “You have to remain a scrapper,” he explained. And success palliates that spirit. Success tells you, ‘you’re a good boy.’ If you give into that impulse you get disoriented because you get patted on the back.”
He made a cogent analogy about being accepted into the club, but how the artist should be wary of such a trap.
“The artist looks outside[the window] of the banquet…and he has a certain degree of rage against the people that are inside the candlelight banquet… success tells you, ‘come on in, have a piece of chicken, have a glass of wine,’ and you shouldn’t. If you go into that banquet you lose some of that scrapper spirit,” explained the director.
Friedkin gets quite vexed about the competitive nature of awards and how pitting art against art is a fool’s errand. He also discussed the time he produced the 49th Annual Academy Awards in 1977, and removed the word “Best” from every category. “I got a lot of hate mail for that,” he said. It’s a fascinating 44-minute chat. The two also talk about the plagiarism controversy surrounding “The Shape of Water,” del Toro’s apprenticeship under makeup legend Dick Smith, a friend of Friedkin’s, and much more. Listen to the full podcast chat below.
[The Talkhouse: Photo credit: courtesy of The Talkhouse]